That doesn't sound very effective to me
> Reducing expenses to half is pretty tough given the biggest expense is rent/mortgage.
This is simply a matter of finding a location to live where rent is not a big expense. All you need is an internet connection. You don't have to live in the Bay Area to create software and there are plenty of cheap places to live, both in the U.S. and in other countries.
> Reducing work to half is harder since there are not very many companies that are okay with 20 hrs or less a week. This also means you wont get health insurance.
I take it you don't have a lot of experience freelancing, but it's very easy to find as much or little work as you're willing to do - I did it for years. I also find that the best health insurance policy is to take care of yourself. Beyond that, just get the highest deductible plan you possibly can and minimize your health risks (thankfully programming is not very hazardous).
> But as a single person or a family in the US, this just doesnt make sense.
If it doesn't make sense for a single person in the U.S. then who does it make sense for? Ask yourself who you're trying to convince, me, or yourself? Ever notice how much easier it is to come up with reasons why something is impossible than it is to actually try it for yourself?
You've made it pretty clear that it's possible, if you're willing to jump through a bunch of hoops and are a programmer, to begin to have the privilege of an altruistic lifestyle. That is, the kind that will help thousands if not millions of persons to get higher quality of life.
'just move somewhere with low cost of living' - what about family and friends? non-profits are hiring in the middle of nowhere, I guess? what about most housing requiring a year-long contract? what about rural internet connectivity being a complete joke, and most cellular plans are by the GB?
'just take care of yourself and get a low deductible health insurance plan' - what about if you aren't healthy? what about if you have dependents? Where's the good care now that you're living away from cities? You're suggesting we move away from the best that humanity and technology has to offer?
'just cut down your expenses by 10x!' - ...you're joking, right? It's going to be really hard to live on $200/mo in any american city. Cost of living is going up everywhere, unless you're suggesting moving somewhere that's not growing. And wages have been stagnating for decades. See this post by Michael Church - https://www.quora.com/Why-do-software-engineers-make-so-much Only so much can be cut.
'just freelance! I did it, so can you' - times are changing, and that lifestyle simply isn't compatible with your average student coming out of our education systems. Also, freelancing suffers from being a chicken and egg kind of problem.
"If it doesn't make sense for a single person in the U.S. then who does it make sense for?"
Exactly. Hardly anyone. Our society is structured in such a way that it's very hard to be altruistic, compared to being selfish and seeking greater and greater pay through whatever job.
Have a social app idea? Here's $mil!! Uber for Z? $mil!! Oh it didn't work out? Ok, what else, what else...
Have a altruistic app idea that will improve the quality of life in a way that's hard to measure? Er haven't you heard? Not even schools can get funding. Teacher pay is frozen indefinitely.
Why does it take someone to be independently wealthy first, or live a lifestyle very much unlike the rest of the population, to be an effective altruistic in our society?
What about everyone else? The question was, 'how happy are you working as a programmer?", and I answered, "not particularly, because I'm in a favorable position to see how hard it is for everyone else, and how much harder it seems it's going to get as automation continues to consume existing business processes".
Can you really say with a straight face that more than a very lucky small minority of the 7.3+ billion people can realistically pursue a lifestyle of altruism? Many of them can't even work for money, but can only think on how to survive to the next day, the next week. You don't even have to go to a third world country to find it. How happy are those people, and what is your advice for them?
>minimize your health risks (thankfully programming is not very hazardous
health risks from being seated and sedentary all day are quite extreme.
Unless you meant they should join a gym and increase their expenses, thus increasing the amount of work they need to do to pay their bills.
So we've got:
health insurance,
car insurance,
gym membership,
housing/rent,
food,
gas,
internet connection,
electricity,
any current debt (student loans, car loans, mortgage, personal loans, etc),
any savings contributions for retirement.
So yeah, just cut all those expenses by 10x, have a job that allows you to work less than 20 hours/ week from anywhere, and have a altruistic goal that can also be met remotely without interacting with anyone ever.
Oh and also, be a programmer - remember that an altruistic life is reserved for very specific niches of society, altruism should never be the goal of the huddled masses.
On what planet is a gym membership required to maintain a healthy lifestyle? How's this for an option: instead of owning/maintaining a car and paying for car insurance, ride a bike to work. Now you've killed two birds with one stone.
> internet connection
How about instead of paying for an internet connection you go to a library or hang out at a coffeeshop when you need to use it. Or go in with a neighbor to get it cheaper.
> any current debt (student loans, car loans, mortgage, personal loans, etc)
Sell the car, sell the house, and as far as the student loans go, consolidate them and pay the minimum for as long as you need to.
> So yeah, just cut all those expenses by 10x, have a job that allows you to work less than 20 hours/ week from anywhere, and have a altruistic goal that can also be met remotely without interacting with anyone ever.
Most people's expenses can be cut by about that much if they just give up the luxury of owning and operating a car and move to a region/neighborhood that has much cheaper rent (or take roommates gasp!). I have to image if your very survival depended on a 10x decrease in your expenses you'd be clever enough to make it happen.
> Oh and also, be a programmer - remember that an altruistic life is reserved for very specific niches of society, altruism should never be the goal of the huddled masses.
I don't remember me or anyone else ever saying that in this thread.
LOL, in a rural location that you suggested to lower rent? Work is likely to be at least a 20 minute commute by car, more than 15 miles each way for sure. ( the US average commute time is 25.4 minutes) Also, biking to and from work would reduce the time you are able to spend on your altruism even further.
>How about instead of paying for an internet connection you go to a library or hang out at a coffeeshop when you need to use it. Or go in with a neighbor to get it cheaper.
Because no one is going to hire a remote freelancer without an internet connection? are you even serious? this is laughable.
>sell the house
right cutting your expenses is much easier when youre not paying rent, youre right just be homeless! then you can help all the animals you want!
>as far as the student loans go, consolidate them and pay the minimum for as long as you need to.
right, still left with a student loan payment at the end of that, so this doesnt offer any solutions at all.
> luxury of owning and operating a car and move to a region/neighborhood that has much cheaper rent (or take roommates gasp!)
So where do you have in mind? you must have something really specific in mind because i cant think of a single area with very low cost of living and very high bikeable/walkable streets - please enlighten us as to the perfect place to live.
>I don't remember me or anyone else ever saying that in this thread.
right, but youre giving advice that says "you dont need basic income to be altruistic, you can just work remotely and live somewhere cheap, then work less and use your free time to be altruistic"
Wherein the 'working remotely' applies only to a very niche set of jobs (which all universally require an internet connection and specific set of skills)
Sorry man, your hypothetical solution is plainly not realistic.
In order to help save the lives of animals thats what this person should do?
They should:
Move to a low cost of living area
Work at most half as much as you do now (and have a job that is somehow OK with that)
sell your car
sell your house
consolidate all loans
get a remote freelance job
get rid of your internet connection and only use the library
cut all your costs by 10x
bike to work
oh right, also:
dont have a spouse
dont have children
work in a remote-friendly industry
desire to perform remote-friendly altruistic work
dont save for retirement
dont get sick
dont get injured
but yeah man, this sounds totally doable for anyone who wants to support a cause, this sounds like the type of society anyone would want to live in; way worse than providing people with a basic income enabling the entire country to pursue their altruism
In summary, I am not as opposed to your equation after this reply from you, but I still maintain its hard to do. As a challenge, I am going to see if I can accomplish it. Thanks for the kick in the back! :)
