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0 pointsEerie10y ago0 comments

>Any logical system based on the concept that human life is worth existing on its own (no matter what the person has contributed to society) automatically ends up with the necessary conclusion that things like subsidized healthcare are mandatory.

And that abortion is illegal. :-)

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alttab10y ago

If its mandatory, then every fertile human is walking around with the "right" to produce more burden for the state. That would make reproduction a liability... which turns into birth licenses.

joesmo10y ago

No because an intelligent life from would not define a bunch of cells that just started multiplying last month and cannot survive on their own as as life.

trbvm210y ago

As it happens, the ability to reproduce and the ability to respond to stimuli in any manner are generally accepted qualities that distinguish life from non-life.

http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Life http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/life

Whether a given bunch of cells may be considered human is still very much an open question but whether a cell or cluster of cells is alive should be pretty easy to agree on.

jcranmer10y ago

An unborn, non-life form still has utilitarian value: there is an expected value that it would perform throughout its otherwise natural life.

Actually, a strict utilitarian model would probably conclude that it's not worth aborting to save the mother's life if the baby is viable, since the baby would ultimately produce more value for society than the mother would were she to live out her life.

And that's the sort of reasoning that makes everyone hate utilitarian ethics.

sonwat10y ago

You're assuming an unwanted, unborn baby has value. Not only does it not have value, but it's actually a burden to society. Utilitarianism would consider the damage that unwanted, unborn baby will inflict on society and decide to abort it every single time. Social welfare, orphanage, and especially criminal costs are incredibly likely and incredibly high. The chance that the baby will amount to anything worthwhile enough to offset those costs is incredibly low for an unwanted baby and thus not worth the risk to society. Here in the US we have seen the criminal costs of outlawing abortion with the high crime rates of the 70's, 80's, and early 90's finally coming down in the last two decades due to legal abortion. Other countries like Romania know this equally well. That doesn't even begin to take into account the rest of the social costs of forcing unwanted babies to be born.

kantianethics10y ago

First, your statement that abortions have decreased crime in the US is based on one of the most flawed and controversial studies in the scientific community [1]. Correlation does not imply causation.

Second, Utilitarianism roughly translates to "the greatest good for the greatest number." If a pregnant, utilitarian woman was granted with the power of foresight, she would abort her child only if he/her was to provide a negative net utility to society. If the child was to provide a net benefit to humankind, she would not abort.

Third, your assumption that unborn (and born) children are a burden to society is correct, but that initial investment is small with regards to the average net "benefit" a grown human creates. It must also be noted that the vast majority of humans benefit humankind through their work (although some have greater impact than others).

No person can see the future, however, so most utilitarians would never abort their children, as the probability their offspring benefit humanity as a whole is greater than the chance that they destroy value.

Frankly, I doubt any woman considers the ethical implications of abortion when they undergo one, and are primarily concerned with family, relationship, and personal problems. If one thinks beyond personal convenience, and look at the bigger picture, abortions are morally unjust from almost every popular ethical system.

Think hard about the choice your parents made by not aborting you. Do you think they made the right decision? Whether you're old, young, rich, poor, hopeful or hopeless, I imagine you'll answer yes.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_e...

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