undefined | Better HN

0 pointsaptwebapps9y ago0 comments

The last one made me laugh but you need to remove the 'was'.

0 comments

No, it still works. Someone else has caused John to assault the fruit. "The guard dog was set upon an intruder, while John was set upon a date."

kbenson9y ago

Doesn't the "was" change who the action applies to? E.g. "John assaulted a date" vs "John was assaulted by a date"? I'm not entirely sure "John was set upon a date" makes sense. Then again, I've never been great with the specific rules of English, even though it's my first language (likely because it's my first language, and I learned it not as rules, but through immersion as a child).

schoen9y ago

"Set upon" can mean either "to begin to attack" or "to cause to begin to attack", although in the latter case the target of attack goes between "set" and "upon":

The dog set upon the cat. (began to attack the cat)

The person set the dog upon the cat. (caused the dog to begin to attack the cat)

The second meaning could make sense in the original sentence with John being the attacker, a date (fruit) being the target of attack, and an unspecified party being the one who caused John to attack. In this case there is a past-tense passive with "was" + the past participle of the verb (like "was liked", "was seen", "was taken"), but the past participle of "set upon" is identical to the present form, so "was set upon" means either "was attacked" or was caused to attack. But only the second meaning is plausible when followed by "a date", as opposed to "by a date".

"John was set upon a date" → John was caused to attack a date

"John was set upon by a date" → John was attacked by a date

This reminds me that phrasal verbs really are one of the trickiest things in English. Some of my non-native speaker friends have several books just about this topic, because it's so subtle and pervasive in English.

1 more reply

fenomas9y ago

GP means it in the sense of "The attack dog was set upon the intruder" (e.g. by its master).

tgb9y ago

Or, alternatively, it means that John was placed on top of a fruit.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse