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0 pointsbusterarm9y ago0 comments

Personally, I never expect people to pick the right algorithm the first time. In the real world it's hard to do. I'm much more interested in if they think about alternatives to their solution, know where the problems with theirs are and if they might find an alternate solution to the problem online.

If you're hiring junior developers without expecting to be hands-on in their work and with plan to train them, then you aren't really hiring junior developers, you're just trying to pay at junior rates. It's not doing them or your business a service to hire them.

There are plenty of CS grads out there with all sorts of algo skills but no practical and will take 3 months + to build anything in your stack. This is basically the same problem with different symptoms: You don't have the resources to hire a junior developer.

It's just way easier to blame the hire than your company.

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lsadam09y ago

I believe we are misunderstanding each other, as you are making some assumptions. We do spend time training junior developers. We are hands on during work.

I'm talking about one problem at the start of the process. In the example, I didn't touch on their choice of sort algorithm. I was pointing out that they believed that re-sorting the same array, for every single GetIndexAt(x) call, was an ok thing to do. The majority of boot campers did, the majority of CS grads did not.

So if we have two distinct groups applying for a junior level position, and one group has a stronger grasp on fundamentals, I fail to understand how a company is at fault for choosing the better candidate. Objectively, the junior level CS grad had a better understanding of the problem.

busterarmOP9y ago

Are they saying that it's an actual okay thing to do? ...like, you challenged them on it and had a discussion and they said it was perfectly okay regardless of size of array?

Or it was just allowed to let lie and they said it's an okay thing to do because that's what's in their code?

I think it's a huge mistake to conflate whether someone does know and whether they can know something. Some of the best programmers I've ever seen started off pretty clueless - most of that group learns things absurdly quickly too.

I don't think that exercise gives you good information other than to confirm your expectations. I don't know whether that can tell you if they'll bring value to your organization or not.

lsadam09y ago

There were a few hundred applications to sort through for the position. Applicants all received the same test. The initial response is used to filter the pool and decide with whom to speak with further. Only with a filtered applicant pool is it reasonable to sit and discuss their solution with. Some criteria is needed to filter the pool, so obviously those that have submitted a better initial solution will be selected. The exercise shows that some applicants will require more training than others.

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0 pointsbusterarm9y ago0 comments

It's just way easier to blame the hire than your company.

0 comments

lsadam09y ago

I believe we are misunderstanding each other, as you are making some assumptions. We do spend time training junior developers. We are hands on during work.

busterarmOP9y ago

Are they saying that it's an actual okay thing to do? ...like, you challenged them on it and had a discussion and they said it was perfectly okay regardless of size of array?

Or it was just allowed to let lie and they said it's an okay thing to do because that's what's in their code?

I don't think that exercise gives you good information other than to confirm your expectations. I don't know whether that can tell you if they'll bring value to your organization or not.

lsadam09y ago

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j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse