undefined | Better HN

0 pointsheimatau9y ago0 comments

I'm glad you had success but...let's not measure your outlier experience with the rest of the world. Especially in Adv Mathematics.

I'd point you and other HNs to Srinivasa Ramanujan. He is self taught but...he was wrong [1]. He had a brilliant mind but...due to being self taught, he made some critical mistakes.

Being self taught can easily lead the learner to some critical mistakes. Eventually, they may be corrected (and at what 'cost' does this mistake cause an organization or business or those involved) but it's more efficient of someone's time to just learn from another. I'm not saying everyone needs a University Degree. I'm saying that everyone needs a teacher. Everyone. Why? Because instead of 'the blind leading the blind' (you as a 'blind' teacher, leading you as a 'blind' learner). You have the efficiency of being led by a mentor of some kind that can steer you away from faulty concepts that may come in.

It's great that we now have more free/cheap materials than ever before at our disposal but without a mentor or some kind of peer-review, we could be misapplying concepts.

Also, to comment on something you specifically said:

> Because in my companies view, being able to teach yourself all that math is much more impressive than being taught from a University.

Yes, it's 'impressive' but...most don't learn this way. Which is way it's 'impressive'. Also, being self-taught, how do you truly verify what you understand mathematically is accurate and solid? [2] You might be and I'm not going to fault you but learning concepts is one thing but applying them is even more challenging. It's one thing to be 'impressive', it's a whole other thing to have mastery over a topic. And I'm a firm believer mastery is mostly achieved with peer/mentor feedback.

I applaud you but let's not steer others to just teach themselves, without help from others. Let's encourage self taught and peer feedback. It's not one or the other, it's both.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcKRGpMiVTw

[2] - I searched for 30 minutes to find this article, that I read, that stated the current environment of Mathematical Research [3]. Namely, it stated that a lot of research is being published that is NOT peer-reviewed because there isn't enough skilled* Mathematicians to review the work. That it's a 'dirty little secret' in the industry that "known" Mathematicians would get a pass (published w/o review) but many others trying new groundbreaking ideas couldn't get their research peer-reviewed. And with the given University culture to publish NEW research and not review, it's understandable how this environment was created. Namely, Einstein gets the fame but it took numerous people to peer-review his work before it was accepted.

[3] - I know this article exists. It's one of the reasons why I'm becoming a Mathematician. I read it in the past 2-3 years. It was a major site (NewScientist or something that focuses on emerging research). If you can find it, I'd be very grateful. I'm now* using Zotero to save all my findings, so hopefully when I quote something I'll have a source. ;)

*(edited) - original said 'not'. I meant 'now I'm using Zotero'. ;). original said 'skill', I meant 'skilled'

0 comments

mungoid9y ago

I agree 100% with you and, most of my situation was because I lean a bit too far in the "against the grain" category. Because of that, I definitely made it more difficult for myself and would regularly lose drive to continue because I felt "I'm not getting it, I suck. Why can't I learn this the normal way?"

>Being self taught can easily lead the learner to some critical mistakes. ...

I really glad you brought that up. There have been countless times that I was working on some formula which looked good to me, and even had correct results (some of the time), only to find that it was completely backwards when someone else looked at. Its essentially like learning to program versus learning to program correctly. I cant tell you how many times I pronounce words incorrectly because I have only read it and never heard someone talk about it. Also embarrassing.

I have actually read that same thing about your [2] foot note and I wanna say I saw it here on HN but cannot remember when. It was pretty interesting and I can totally see how not learning math the proper way can cause a lot of issues related to research. In my case doing physics for simulations, its not as pronounced, because its a small user base but in a larger scale, I would be terrified of publishing my work for this exact reason.

And I by no means intend on convincing others to learn this on their own. I would actually suggest doing it the standard way because it was much more difficult and time consuming trying to learn this stuff by your own. Especially since I had no real person to talk to about it. I kinda wish I could have gone back and changed majors.

heimatauOP9y ago

> There have been countless times that I was working on some formula which looked good to me, and even had correct results (some of the time), only to find that it was completely backwards when someone else looked at.

I think many people forget that THIS is what a Scientist is. Someone subjected to their peers. This humble way of looking at things (that our work isn't accepted until it's verified/peer-reviewed), is our way of life. It's a shame to me that the current culture has a massive backlog of research, without peer review.

I'm grateful for your reply as it will give others insight into the 'less trodden path' of trying things yourself. It worked for you, so that should motive others. And hopefully I added to the conversation to encourage others to seek out peers/mentors, since that will accelerate their learning.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse