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0 pointshackuser9y ago0 comments

I agree with the general point, and I believe it's well-established, that aid can have second-order and higher order effects that are counter-productive. On the other hand, in this case it's merely FUD and an argument for inaction; we would need specific information about Moolenaar's charity. I'm not going to stand still and do nothing just in case.

Second-order effects also can make donations to the Free Software Conservancy counter-productive.

As an aside, I wonder if the Free Software Conservancy would want to be seen telling people not to donate to Ugandan AIDS victims and to redirect the money to themselves. My guess is they would not like to see their name here.

> emotional appeal

Life and death has appeal beyond 'mere' emotion. It's more important than free software, and I say that as an avid fan of, and occasional donor and contributor to FOSS projects.

EDIT: A rewording or two

0 comments

reflexive9y ago

> I'm not going to stand still and do nothing

The advice "Don't just do something, stand there!" comes to mind.

Bram has been going to Kibaale since 1994, and he's now presumably busy feeding and clothing a new generation of orphaned children, orphaned by the original orphans. Isn't this precisely the creation of a trans-generational cycle of dependency by Western patrons?

Wouldn't those people rather be in a position to feed and clothe their own population? Perhaps even be the ones sending charitable aid workers to the Netherlands.

What is happening is evidently not a path to freedom and independence. The correct action can be found in inaction.

> Life and death has appeal beyond 'mere' emotion.

Remember it's true: lives are valuable, but our dignity is valuable too.

__s9y ago

How do you know they're the children of children he's helped? Latest news posting underlines emphasis on education & getting people employed

http://iccf-holland.org/news.html

reflexive9y ago

I'm all for individual achievements, but I wouldn't call turning people into lawyers and Arsenal supporters an unequivocally positive outcome.

Should you feel moved to give to Bram's organization, at least consider an offsetting donation to help address the eradication of pristine savannah, extinctions from over-hunting, elimination of biodiversity, and other imbalances which will naturally occur when a human population is suddenly freed from all checks on growth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibaale_District#Population

Or one might consider just making the world a better place by doing something we actually understand - like, writing software and doing our jobs, instead of staying up late $#!+posting ;-)

hackuserOP9y ago

> he's now presumably busy feeding and clothing a new generation of orphaned children, orphaned by the original orphans

That comment makes up a fact and then criticizes it.

I have no idea what the outcomes are for the people Bram helped and I doubt you do, though I'm confident they have a little more food and whatever else he provides. There are still problems in Uganda and there are still problems everywhere in the world, including in rich nations, in your family and mine, in your life and mine; there are bugs in Linux' code. The fact that problems remain doesn't in any way imply that the efforts to improve are counter-productive. That doesn't make sense.

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0 pointshackuser9y ago0 comments

Second-order effects also can make donations to the Free Software Conservancy counter-productive.

> emotional appeal

Life and death has appeal beyond 'mere' emotion. It's more important than free software, and I say that as an avid fan of, and occasional donor and contributor to FOSS projects.

EDIT: A rewording or two

0 comments

reflexive9y ago

> I'm not going to stand still and do nothing

The advice "Don't just do something, stand there!" comes to mind.

Wouldn't those people rather be in a position to feed and clothe their own population? Perhaps even be the ones sending charitable aid workers to the Netherlands.

What is happening is evidently not a path to freedom and independence. The correct action can be found in inaction.

> Life and death has appeal beyond 'mere' emotion.

Remember it's true: lives are valuable, but our dignity is valuable too.

__s9y ago

How do you know they're the children of children he's helped? Latest news posting underlines emphasis on education & getting people employed

http://iccf-holland.org/news.html

reflexive9y ago

I'm all for individual achievements, but I wouldn't call turning people into lawyers and Arsenal supporters an unequivocally positive outcome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibaale_District#Population

Or one might consider just making the world a better place by doing something we actually understand - like, writing software and doing our jobs, instead of staying up late $#!+posting ;-)

hackuserOP9y ago

> he's now presumably busy feeding and clothing a new generation of orphaned children, orphaned by the original orphans

That comment makes up a fact and then criticizes it.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse