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0 pointsSilhouette8y ago0 comments

There's a toolbar with 100 buttons of the same size: "Write, Chat, Reply, Reply all, Archive, Address book, Get email, Tag, Quick filter".

My main Thunderbird toolbar has get mail, write new message and quick filtering. It took me perhaps 10 seconds back when I first installed it on this computer to hide a couple of other buttons like chat that I don't use myself.

The second toolbar when I have a message open has just 5 buttons (reply, reply all, forward, mark as junk, delete) and I use all of them frequently.

I agree with your general point that clean UIs that prioritise more important features tend to be nicer to use, but I think you're dramatically overstating the problem here.

Why can't they just show suggestions when I'm in the compose window and I type the first few letters of the person's name or email?

That's exactly what it does, and has for as long as I can remember.

0 comments

nkkollaw8y ago

> My main Thunderbird toolbar has get mail, write new message and quick filtering. It took me perhaps 10 seconds back when I first installed it on this computer to hide a couple of other buttons like chat that I don't use myself.

That's not how it works. The authors have to take the time to study the situation, talk about it, make hard decisions and cut out features that are useless or barely useful, and have the balls to ship a product with just the right features instead of all the features in an attempt to please everyone. Not the user.

It shouldn't be the user who has to waste time and energy trying to figure out how to clean up the UI. That's exactly why people like myself are abandoning software like Thunderbird and moving to simpler, more thought-out stuff.

I don't know how much Mozilla cares about people using their product, but that I doubt that's how you get people to use your product.

SilhouetteOP8y ago

The authors have to take the time to study the situation, talk about it, make hard decisions and cut out features that are useless or barely useful, and have the balls to ship a product with just the right features instead of all the features in an attempt to please everyone. Not the user.

You're perfectly entitled to that view, and for someone who holds that view a product like Thunderbird is obviously not a good fit.

There are, however, other views, and for someone who doesn't want simple UIs with no flexibility or configurability and doesn't have a problem with spending a few seconds customising something to get a result they are happier with, a product more like Thunderbird is a better fit.

nkkollaw8y ago

I've talked to you before about pretty much the same kind of stuff.

We have opposite views.

Of course I only talk about personal preference, I'm aware that not everyone sees things the same way I do.

Dylan168078y ago

How many new email clients do you install per decade? If you chose a client based on a couple minutes of customization effort then you're almost certainly making an irrational decision.

Not to excuse bad UIs that slow down every single navigation, which adds up. But picking toolbar buttons is a one time cost.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointsSilhouette8y ago0 comments

There's a toolbar with 100 buttons of the same size: "Write, Chat, Reply, Reply all, Archive, Address book, Get email, Tag, Quick filter".

The second toolbar when I have a message open has just 5 buttons (reply, reply all, forward, mark as junk, delete) and I use all of them frequently.

I agree with your general point that clean UIs that prioritise more important features tend to be nicer to use, but I think you're dramatically overstating the problem here.

Why can't they just show suggestions when I'm in the compose window and I type the first few letters of the person's name or email?

That's exactly what it does, and has for as long as I can remember.

0 comments

nkkollaw8y ago

I don't know how much Mozilla cares about people using their product, but that I doubt that's how you get people to use your product.

SilhouetteOP8y ago

You're perfectly entitled to that view, and for someone who holds that view a product like Thunderbird is obviously not a good fit.

nkkollaw8y ago

I've talked to you before about pretty much the same kind of stuff.

We have opposite views.

Of course I only talk about personal preference, I'm aware that not everyone sees things the same way I do.

Dylan168078y ago

How many new email clients do you install per decade? If you chose a client based on a couple minutes of customization effort then you're almost certainly making an irrational decision.

Not to excuse bad UIs that slow down every single navigation, which adds up. But picking toolbar buttons is a one time cost.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse