I always chuckled a bit when (tech) press would say 'Google has beaten auto manufacturers' after Google released some PR videoclip of them showing a car driving.
European car companies just don't see the need to enlighten the world about what they're up to, how they are progressing, but simply work until it's finished for production and then unveil it.
Still haven't seen that 'vastly superiour' super-car from Google and Apple everyone claimed were coming to take over.
Tesla does seem to succesfully run their company as a tech start-up: hyping new products that are 1 or 2 year from being in production, personification of the brand via the CEO god-status, continuous deliviry of software updates to cars, public beta testing etc..
I am rooting for Tesla, I hope they find the capability to increase production levels to something that comes near of the existing car giants.
Lame! Vaporware!
"Audi releases a press-release, no video, no demonstration, no real-world evidence"
European manufacturers sure are capable and know what they're doing! What a refreshing change!
I just don't see it as plausible that a company with little to no roots in software managed to bring on a large enough team from scratch, that understands software engineering well enough to build something like this to a high level of reliability.
Does anyone here really think that the same or similar teams responsible for the god-awful, un-updateable, UI disaster that is the center console nav in any car ever have somehow elegantly conquered autonomous driving?
Being able to self-drive on highways with physical barriers between oncoming traffic is, like, the easiest use case for self-driving cars. This doesn't very advanced to me at all. Urban driving is the actual hard part.
Also, being stuck in a traffic jam during the daily comute is one of the most annoying and most stressing parts of driving. Not having to deal with this is a significant improvement in the driver's quality of life.
Looking forward to more in my next car.
Edit: reading below, my car is ~L2, but I trust it more as L1.
As a pure car safety feature, this gets double thumbs up. That's the culmination of all the tools they have added recently: lane departure warning, adaptative cruise control, blind spot warning, attention detection, ...
That said, it does indeed very little for the end-goal of having a fleet of constructor/rental/uber/google cars that drives you from your house to your destination.
Urban driving requires a skill set machines don't have. You have to be aggressive but not hostile. Else, you'll never get anywhere in rush hour traffic.
In both highway and urban driving I think the "hard" bit is dealing with the unusual, like a line of ducks crossing the road, a civilian directing traffic because and old person has collapsed in the middle of the street, or any situation in which a human being is providing important context via voice e.g. don't drive down there, the road will be blocked until this truck reverses out to avoid a low bridge.
While I also want to see european car makers tackling these challenges, how is the posted report different from a fluff piece about Google's experiments? Other than the lack of a video demonstration.
At this point Audi's announcement sounds like a bunch of over-promised, ambitious claims with a high potential of turning into vaporware. I might be wrong and all of it is very real and working, but you can't come to that conclusion by reading that article alone.
And by all indications they are succeeding - the roadblock is regulations and turning it into a consumer product. The tech is there.
I agree that there's some genuinely impressive and underrated stuff hitting the market from many manufacturers (even in sub-luxury brands), but Tesla has a real and formidable advantage in the amount of data they're collecting.
1) They only pitted older models against the latest update of Tesla's system. E.g. the 3 year old S-class was tested instead of the new E-class, which had just started to be delivered at the time. (And had been tested by car journalists for months.) At the time that S-class entered production, Tesla had not had any "autopilot" at all.
2) They tested only lane keeping. Unsurprisingly the Tesla was better at that. They did not however test automatic emergency braking, autoparking etc. - features that Tesla either simply doesn't have or isn't as good in.
tl;dr: Cherry-picked test.
because of their innate audience they don't need to make spectacular announcements to generate interest. companies without large established bases in the field do. Tesla is special in that they have a CEO who doesn't seem to have an off switch. However this is not always a positive but they still manage to handle it well.
The 3 will be an interesting car but still highly limited with regards to what many expect cars to do but EVs are still a very young technology. Autonomous driving is where the real money is, it can be applied easily to many types of vehicles, don't over look the usage of similar tech on the mundane like mobility scooters or similar
I certainly appreciate Volvo letting the world know what they're doing to test autonomous cars. I'm glad European carmakers don't work the way you're saying they do.
The headline sounds good, but the details are that it only works on highways, up to 38MPH, and won't be enabled right away; they are going to roll it out later. The one notable thing seems to be that you can be stuck in traffic and take your hands off the wheel, unlike Tesla where you have to have your hands on the wheel.
I'm not sure how they call this "first", since it won't be on new cars released next year, until after some future software update, how is this different from Tesla that is already shipping cars that can do this and more with a software update?
Full disclosure: in Dec I sold my Audi A8 to get a Model S.
Currently, the Model S can basically drive itself in heavy traffic, but it will periodically want your hand(s) on the wheel. I recently was in stop and go traffic on a 2 lane road for an hour and the Tesla did great. The A8 won't be able to there, it won't work on anything but a divided highway which this was not.
Don't get me wrong, I've had 5 Audis over the years and have loved them. But this really isn't "news", Audi is still playing catch up.
Oh, and from the testing I've done this winter, the Tesla AWD system is at least as good as quattro. Probably better.
Also WRT snow performance Telsa has a pretty large advantage over any ICE since they can apply different torque amounts to each wheel in near sub 1ms timeframe due to two factors:
1. Lower rotating mass(you only have stator, axle and wheels in the physical drivetrain. 2. FETs respond much faster than an internal combustion engine.
We got a fair bit of snow a while back and even without dedicated winter tires I was incredibly impressed with the snow/ice handling. Much better than our Subaru by a long shot. You can still get yourself into trouble but it was much harder to overcorrect than on our ICE.
I also think that having two truly independent motors is vastly superior to one motor and a Torsen center diff sending it front and back.
The quattro would use braking of one wheel to send power to the other side on one axle, with a traditional diff. I haven't really figured out what the Tesla does from side to side. But it seems to work great!
We didn't get a lot of snow after Dec when I got it, but what I did get to play in it was very impressive.
This press release, like all high end / performance car press releases of the last 2-3 years, can be summed up as:
"blah blah, not electric, blah blah"
Like you, I am an ex-A8 owner who loved (loved!) those cars and have no interest in buying another one - no matter how nice or feature filled or well-designed they are. There's no way they don't know this and it becomes more and more stupefying that they cede this highest-of-margins segment to Tesla.
"Oh, and from the testing I've done this winter, the Tesla AWD system is at least as good as quattro. Probably better."
Exactly - it has two motors.
My disappointment is wide and deep as the major manufacturers continue to refuse to make a modern car. However it is Audi and Volvo in particular whose inaction is truly mind-blowing. Audi because they could continue to own AWD/4WD and volvo because their target market is ripe for the aesthetic and social benefits of electric cars.
Instead, Audi has spent ten years going down the "in 2-3 years we'll have an electric platform" and volvo has committed to a shitty-hybrids-with-lawnmower-engines-inside platform for the next 8-10 years.
Right after I got it, I took a friend to pick up his Audi from the service center. I walked in with him and the service guy said to me "You're dead to me!" He is a really nice guy named Ryan, but I'll be honest that I'm kind of tired of being so tight with the Audi service guy. I'm hoping the Tesla doesn't cost so much down the road. I've already avoided 3 oil changes, so it's off to a good start. :-)
Often when I see a big project come to an end I can not stop thinking about all the hours work put into something which didn't made it to the end. Features they had to abandon or wait with until next revision.
Im very curious how good it will work and will try to get the hands on it as quickly as possible. :)
Probably going to turn out to be the most dangerous.
I am planning on dying in my sleep, but not because a Level 3 autonomous car decided to throw a "Can't handle reality" exception.
(This somewhat tongue in cheek response should in no way be read as denigrating the awesome technical achievement Level 3 represents. All speed to Level 4 and Level 5)
Sensors: all-around ultrasonic, 1 monochrome camera, 1 front radar.
(https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/en-gb/media/pressrele...)
Table 2 on p. 19 of the 30-page recommendation is a nice TL;DR summary.
Which begs the question...what part of Tesla Autopilot doesn't satisfy the SAE definition?
http://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/levels-of-...
- level 2: "hands off"
- level 3: "eyes off"
- level 4: "mind off"
What this system does is utilize the front cameras to scan and map the road surface ahead. It can then apply up to 20 kN of force via electric motors to raise or lower the wheels individually. This mitigates bumps from potholes or uneven roads, which, apart from being more comfortable, will also ensure the suspension lasts longer. This system also decreases body roll during turns, and squat / dive under accel / decel. All of it is powered by the 48V semi-hybrid electric system. Expect this to become much more commonplace with further electrification.
Mercedes has a similar technology called Magic Body Control, but it can only tighten or loosen the dampeners, rather than directly move the wheels. What the Audi system can do, which the Merc cannot, is to raise the side of the car during an impending t-bone collision, which allows the main body structure to take the impact instead of the doors.
Calling it "level 3 autonomy" is misleading as well, given how highly constrained the situations are in which it can operate at level 3. From what I can tell from the press release, it only promises that the car can handle a freeway traffic-jam situation, ie, it knows how to stay in a lane and not hit anyone when traffic is crawling on a freeway.
Admittedly such a system would be nice for millions of people who commute through such conditions daily, but that is probably one of the easiest tasks for an autonomous system to perform because huge amounts of complexity can be ignored: pedestrians, cyclists, intersections, road hazards, trip routing. This is a baby step taken at the edge of a huge chasm. Good luck!
I know the HN crowd is very pro-Tesla but do not underestimate traditional car-makers.
Random video of A8 wireless charging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME8nFtbTH44
I think it uses RADAR instead of LIDAR but I don't know for sure.
Could any explain what the new A8 is offering in addition to the Golf?
But I suppose it will probably start scanning the road for parking spots like in the auto park feature that exists for years like in this demo from a few years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt20UnkmkLI
And also:
"The traffic jam pilot only works on highways with a physical barrier separating oncoming traffic."
And I'm saying that as an Audi fan. My other car is an A4.
In short: - MobilEye EyeQ3 - Nvidia K1 - an Altera Cyclone FPGA - an Infineon Aurix microcontroller
Each is used for a few different functions.
Impressive specs. And it looks like Mobileeye is inside every self driving car I've seen.
A8: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/1--FKfJ3y71OTTYIz91rno4mYNs=...
Continental: https://www.cstatic-images.com/stock/1170x1170/99/img-122263...
[1] http://autoweek.com/article/autonomous-cars/tesla-model-s-au...
Does autopilot actually meet the qualifications for a level 2 system? AFAIK since autopilot is basically lane following and adaptive cruise control and braking wouldn't that be considered level 1?
Lots of human caused accidents were driving into obvious things too. I don't drive drunk or sleepy, so maybe I'm above average, but my only standard for safety for a self driving car is that it's safer than me driving.
Of course it all depends on your personal mobility habits and where you live, but in many big cities, you can absolutely get by without ever sitting in a car.
These are just better traction control systems, with some accident detection and avoidance thrown in. Nothing much.
You will still do bulk of the work.
*in countries with reasonably advanced infrastructure and somewhat stable economies
> when it goes on sale next year
> The traffic jam pilot only works on highways with a physical barrier separating oncoming traffic
>Audi says it is rolling out this feature “gradually,”
I applaud the development and effort, though I have had enough of people claiming to be first at things that are not yet possible to buy and use.
I like their startup-ish approach which enables them to push software updates to all their cars and collect valuable data, but I feel most people do fundamentally not understand that their cars offer at best Level 2 autonomy.
On a side note, if and when LIDAR becomes cheap enough, Tesla may change their mind and look at integrating it in their cars.
But look, if you reference other articles, Audi can only do self-driving when: "In slow-moving traffic on divided highways at speeds of 37.3 mph and under only. " (TechCrunch).
Tesla can already do that. It simply require the driver to keep hands on the steering because it also allows for all the other options, and Tesla doesn't want you to let go of the wheel and run over a human.
Note that Audi isn not saying their car will do self-driving in the city, with pedestrians throwing themselves onto the road. NO, it will ONLY do it on highways, while in slow traffic. So Audi can only do self-driving when the car is barely in motion and the possibility of interference is close to zero.
That's like calling yourself a University Professor because you wear a checkered jacket with elbow patches.
Not everything regarding Tesla is about Elon.
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