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0 pointsFrogolocalypse8y ago0 comments

> increasing blocksize 4x or even 8x will have negligible impact on the security or decentrality of Bitcoin.

Incorrect. It will make running a full node for almost all consumers in Australia impossible at any price.

> hopefully SegWit2X will be the sane compromise

Segwit is the compromise and we are finally going to get it. If you want to install the 2x hard-fork to china-coin, you are welcome to. Everyone else will just continue using bitcoin. Now with segwit.

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CyberDildonics8y ago

You've made a lot of assertions like this but you aren't backing them up with any numbers.

8MB every 10 minutes is 13KB/s. Do Australians not look at youtube either, because when I was there well over a decade ago it worked pretty well. Even a full node syncing multiple people -while the blocks are full at 8MB- is no problem. Also there are many orders of magnitude left before running a full node exceeds the capacity of a $15/month VPS and many orders of magnitude before a person at home could no longer sync with a full node off a basic internet connection. That is also ignoring the fact that most people don't need or want to sync with the full chain, but to be clear, hundreds of millions can and would still be able to.

I see arguments like this from time to time, usually from the same small group of people, but there is nothing but crickets when I show them basic numbers and ask for how they came to this conclusion.

FrogolocalypseOP8y ago

Here's the source of the justification of my opinion :

https://iancoleman.github.io/blocksize/#_

Where's yours?

The issue is the upload bandwidth requirement, which demonstrates that your understanding of the constraint, with your comparison to YouTube, is completely incorrect. And centralizing of all of these nodes onto service provider infrastructure is the worst possible example of decentralization, which is what we're talking about in the first place.

What I've found in the past is the people who hold your views are only cursorily aware of the constraints of decentralization, and use unrelated justifications in order to hand wave away problems. Thankfully, the people who actually secure bitcoin, through their use of nodes, spend more time to understand how bitcoin works, and have repeatedly rejected 'solutions' that will reduce the security of the network.

But you can now prove me wrong! Instead of using bitcoin, use bitcoin cash. If what you say is true, it will be valued significantly higher than bitcoin. If it stops you trying to break bitcoin, even better.

CyberDildonics8y ago

> with your comparison to YouTube, is completely incorrect

Not for syncing. For running a full node, a VPS costing $12 - $15 USD per month has orders of magnitude more bandwidth. I already have you the math of full 8MB blocks, there is no way you can say that these aren't trivial bandwidth numbers.

> What I've found in the past is the people who hold your views are only cursorily aware of the constraints of decentralization, and use unrelated justifications in order to hand wave away problems.

That's big talk when:

1. You are talking about bandwidth and the numbers are simple to calculate and come out to trivial amounts.

2. Bitcoin is literally working right now with 0 hiccups except for full blocks and high fees. The people working on it right now didn't do that, they kicked out the people who did.

3. You say hand waving while not backing up a single thing you've said or confronting what I've said. 8MB block when 100% full takes 13KB/s to sync. Is that wrong? Twitch streams are 250KB/s. Most people don't even want to or need to sync.

> But you can now prove me wrong! Instead of using bitcoin, use bitcoin cash.

This is about how ridiculous the 1MB limitation is, you can try to divert from that, but lets see you confront it.

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CyberDildonics8y ago

You've made a lot of assertions like this but you aren't backing them up with any numbers.

FrogolocalypseOP8y ago

Here's the source of the justification of my opinion :

https://iancoleman.github.io/blocksize/#_

Where's yours?

CyberDildonics8y ago

> with your comparison to YouTube, is completely incorrect

> What I've found in the past is the people who hold your views are only cursorily aware of the constraints of decentralization, and use unrelated justifications in order to hand wave away problems.

That's big talk when:

1. You are talking about bandwidth and the numbers are simple to calculate and come out to trivial amounts.

2. Bitcoin is literally working right now with 0 hiccups except for full blocks and high fees. The people working on it right now didn't do that, they kicked out the people who did.

> But you can now prove me wrong! Instead of using bitcoin, use bitcoin cash.

This is about how ridiculous the 1MB limitation is, you can try to divert from that, but lets see you confront it.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse