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0 pointsadekok8y ago0 comments

Because in nature, organisms don't grow to the limits of their environment, right? They willingly limit their growth so that all enlightened organisms can share equally in a workers paradise, amidst songs of empowerment and fraternity, while marching collectively towards a bold new future!

Yeah... no.

Evolution shows us that organisms do grow to the limits of their environment. A "capitalist" system is no different. Making thinly-veiled religious statements about the evils of capitalism means rhetoric is more important to you than understanding.

Edit: for the nay-sayers, who seem to have missed my point: These behaviors aren't a result of capitalism. Blaming capitalism, or using ideological rehetoric, is wrong. These behaviors are a result of reality. Of evolution. Of the Dariwnian struggle for existence.

Blaming capitalism for these behaviors makes no more sense than blaming capitalism for a disease like malaria. Malaria was around long before capitalism, or even people, existed.

0 comments

musage8y ago

You could replace capitalism with Nazism in a world ruled by it and you'd have the same "point". What you call understanding is obedience and sophistry, merely trying to get your subjective self out of the picture and trying to call the remaining mess objective.

> The intellectual tradition is one of servility to power, and if I didn't betray it I'd be ashamed of myself.

-- Noam Chomsky

> Alas! There comes the time of the most despicable man, who can no longer despise himself.

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

pygy_8y ago

Provided resources are finite and the sun's output is constant, gradually limiting growth would indeed be wise unless we want to fall off a cliff at some point.

————

Edit: in response to your edit:

Healthy ecosystems strive at equilibrium. If a species consumes more energy than its environment can supply or produces more entropy than its environment can dissipate, things go bad for the environment and for the species unless it can move to greener pastures.

What is true for species is also true for non-biological dissipative processes. Capitalism and the growth-fueled financial system are not perennial. In this context, humanity is part of the environment, and greener pastures is the automation epidemics, where capital is becoming self-sufficient.

This is dangerous for humans.

adekokOP8y ago

> Healthy ecosystems strive at equilibrium.

Nonsense.

The only reason systems are in equilibrium is because of negative feedback. Predators eat prey. Diseases kill plants / animals, etc.

Remove the negative feedback, and you get un-checked growth.

This is basic biology...

pygy_8y ago

Negative feedback is part of healthy ecosystems, because resources _are_ limited. These loops are necessary for long term survival.

What you describe is cancer.

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betaby8y ago

But we pretend we are smart and capitalism is the best system. We believe we are better than amoebas.

adekokOP8y ago

For all my dislike of capitalism, there aren't many better systems. Perhaps capitalism leavened with some socialism (public roads, police, health care, etc.)

i.e. what most rich western societies have.

reitanqild8y ago

To add some detail here:

The last hundred years a number of political systems has been tested.

Compared to how almost every single communist experiment has ended, - and also nazism (far fewer examples but for some reason I really don’t want that either :-/) I far prefer what select lucky European countries and USA as well has done. Specifically I really think the European democracies has almost nailed it with reasonably good public health care, reasonable taxes all while still allowing and encouraging competition between for-profit companies.

"The advantage of communism is that everyone is equally poor. The disadvantage of capitalism is that some people are richer than others." - something I heard as a kid

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

Winston S Churchill

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointsadekok8y ago0 comments

Yeah... no.

Blaming capitalism for these behaviors makes no more sense than blaming capitalism for a disease like malaria. Malaria was around long before capitalism, or even people, existed.

0 comments

musage8y ago

> The intellectual tradition is one of servility to power, and if I didn't betray it I'd be ashamed of myself.

-- Noam Chomsky

> Alas! There comes the time of the most despicable man, who can no longer despise himself.

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

pygy_8y ago

Provided resources are finite and the sun's output is constant, gradually limiting growth would indeed be wise unless we want to fall off a cliff at some point.

————

Edit: in response to your edit:

This is dangerous for humans.

adekokOP8y ago

> Healthy ecosystems strive at equilibrium.

Nonsense.

The only reason systems are in equilibrium is because of negative feedback. Predators eat prey. Diseases kill plants / animals, etc.

Remove the negative feedback, and you get un-checked growth.

This is basic biology...

pygy_8y ago

Negative feedback is part of healthy ecosystems, because resources _are_ limited. These loops are necessary for long term survival.

What you describe is cancer.

1 more reply

betaby8y ago

But we pretend we are smart and capitalism is the best system. We believe we are better than amoebas.

adekokOP8y ago

For all my dislike of capitalism, there aren't many better systems. Perhaps capitalism leavened with some socialism (public roads, police, health care, etc.)

i.e. what most rich western societies have.

reitanqild8y ago

To add some detail here:

The last hundred years a number of political systems has been tested.

"The advantage of communism is that everyone is equally poor. The disadvantage of capitalism is that some people are richer than others." - something I heard as a kid

Winston S Churchill

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse