https://twitter.com/Woodshedagency The hashtags on their twitter description almost seem like satire.
edit : and this was not because the project sucked, the project is profitable now.
There is now effectively a new business where “PR” firms fun the marketing cost in favor of 50% or sometimes more of the campgain and pretty much after that they cut the cord and go to fund their next scam.
Yeah. Screaming in ALL CAPS too.
> #DIGITALBUSINESSDEVELOPMENT #MULTIMEDIAPRODUCTION #CROWDFUNDING #CONSULTING #DETROIT #ENGAGEMENT #NEWYORK #CHICAGO
And their twitter background. Hipster all the way.
> We're currently turning on all of our social media, sites, and lines of communication. They will remain on. Clearly turning them off was a big mistake. More on that in a bit. Jeff and I plan on staying online all night to answer and address any and all questions [0]
0. https://twitter.com/Woodshedagency/status/943632233088405505
This is definitely something that needs to go to the courts; it has to be a form of financial fraud, and depending on the amount raised by the KS, it could end up being a fairly big deal.
As it is, if I were a backer, I would feel like I had been defrauded in some manner. Even if I got the "prize" (game) in the end, when I back a KS, I don't do it solely for the item or prize being offered for being a backer, but because I want to see someone succeed with their ideas and company.
> The elements of wire fraud under Section 1343 directly parallel those of the mail fraud statute, but require the use of an interstate telephone call or electronic communication made in furtherance of the scheme.
> essential elements of wire fraud are:
> (1) a scheme to defraud and
> (2) the use of, or causing the use of, interstate wire communications to execute the scheme)
Source: https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-941-18...
"Upstart is a board game that simulates the ups and down [sic] of starting and sustaining a business."
A 3rd party contractor/service provider stealing your money is certainly one of the "downs" of running a business.
You don't explain, but I don't understand why you couldn't open a bank account. Citizenship is not required. There are online agencies as well, such as Paypal. Was the problem on Kickstarter's side? It seems to me they would have provisions for international clients.
I wish you luck, and am glad you are able to warn people. Out of state lawsuits against out of business corporations (I assume they are out of business, or are about to be) are difficult to collect, but hiring a lawyer is a necessary first step.
It was massively dumb to shut off their social media accounts, but I guess they were just folding under pressure. Smooth recovery.
Also it's remarkable how much power good writing has. Both for ill and for good.
This does not exactly make them look like innocent above board victims of libel.
They claimed in a tweet earlier today that they were preparing a response however the fact they locked off their channel seems to imply their response is duck and cover.
Court is the obvious way to handle it, but I see nothing wrong with going public to warn other people, or shame the company into paying up. The company is still apparently doing business. This goes a bit beyond not being able to pay your vendors, and depending on how exactly it went down, what Woodshed did could be outright illegal.
It seems like the point of the post is to publicize what happened, and make sure other people are aware of the dangers of working with this agency:
> If we don’t tell people what happened, it could happen to someone else.
> We are cutting our losses and doing what we can on a legal front, but we need to warn the community.
The legal system moves slowly; this appears to be their way of holding them accountable for their actions, and for helping others avoid their fate.
I mean there's a reason why the "court of public opinion" isn't the best way to resolve issues...
edit: well, looks like Woodshead Agency protected their twitter account so you can't see the tweet now. That's not great.
It's implicitly an "international" transaction, so why would rectifying the problem be considered unfairly burdensome when they entered into the relationship.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rdacalos/upstart-the-bo...
Looks like $35k. No one would risk destroying their reputation over that small sum. I wonder what the other side of the story is?
Abuse is pretty common in gamedev, but this would be flagrant.
People have killed for far less...If they were in a bad enough financial position, they could have thought that they would borrow their client's money to pay immediate bills, and pay the account back with future client earnings. It happens quite frequently in the legal world--it's the number one reason lawyers get disbarred in CA after drug use.
People risk a lifetime in jail over $35k, on a regular basis.
You really underestimate how bad some people's finances are right now in places like Michigan.
Not sure if anything changed from the original post or it was deleted by mistake.
original post:
The summary as stated (and as i understood it) is as follows. I take no sides here, just trying to summarize the post since i managed to see it before it went bye-bye
> campaign did not succeed as promised, owners allegedly propped it up with own money from fraudulent credit cards that never cleared
> kickstarter paid woodshed $16K (the amount that did clear)
> depending on fee counting, woodshed owed 10% of that, plus 4K they spent on promoting the game
> their accountant told them that they are on hook if game isnt delivered since they have the money so they waited till game delivered
> their accountant told them they are on hook for taxes since they are in USA and got the money and they don’t know what to do now
> "words we said. allegations made. reputations ruined. it is in the hands of lawyers now"
Afair https://hackaday.com/2014/03/07/soap-the-home-automation-rou... dude(or was it two guys) running this scam just bought new car with crowdfunded money and posted pictures on instagram.
This is a perfect example of why we should all follow the "innocent until proven guilty" idea. There is no proof, no chance for the agency to refute claims, etc.
Convenient that they are also asking for more financing.
And if the other side has "cut off all communication," I don't know how you can expect them to not be one-sided.
Regardless, if the statement “we received none of the money” is true. There is definitely something bad going on here.
If Woodshed are to be believed, D-Cal has basically tried to crush their reputation. They did the right thing not responding to tweets.
Lessons learned:
1. If you are not US-based, be aware that there are extra challenges wrt actually getting your money and it may take additional time to handle that piece, so don't delay setting that up and thereby get yourself inti a scheduling mess like we did, which is what led to this decision.
2. Be aware that a favor of this sort from a non bank business is risky. All kinds of things can go wrong.
3. If you can't get your ducks in a row to make this work properly, it may be a de fecto waste of time. We still haven't gotten our money, but made it work anyway. I would have had more time and energy for side projects etc had I not been wasting my time on this debacle.
4. Woodshed told us they are "reorganizing," which sounds like our money is being used as a free bridge loan. If so, that's an abuse of our naive trust. It also does not look good that they have largely stopped communicating with us. However, I still hope they do the right thing and get our money to us.
--
Of course, if they had that level of diplomatic skill in house, they might not feel they need a PR company. So, it sort of isn't shocking that they don't really know how to do this well, all things considered. The diplomancers they thought they hired to help craft their public communications are the very people with whom they have a conflict.
I will add that part of the reason to handle it this way is to cover your own butt, not to be "nice" to people who are probably assholes, by the sound of it.
I disagree. You protect yourself by doing your necessary homework before you even sign the contracts.
Contracts are helpful, but in the real world, getting a resolution can be very messy. Lawsuits are stressful, expensive and time consuming. If you've been through a lawsuit, you'll know that being right is often very small consolation, especially if your adversary happens to have better legal representation than you.
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trip to the woodshed.
Answer : we made a huge mistake to trust people with all our money. This mistake has led to all our problems.
I know it sounds obvious, but still.
"We were wrong."
