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0 pointsdjaychela7y ago0 comments

I don't think it's always the case that you -can- tell. I think it falls nearly into 'Rumsfeld classification':

Known Knowns - done for the clear effect, which is audible by everyone (as popularised, but not invented by Cher, T-Pain, etc).

Known Unknowns - ones where most people wouldn't notice, but if you've listened to autotune a lot you'd swear it's been done (sustained notes with vibrato added seem to be clear contenders here to me, such as one in 'Angels' by Robbie Williams

Unknown Unknowns - There are lots of recordings I've worked on for people (mixing, mostly) where the vocal sounds perfect, and it's actually been autotuned/processed. Subtly, but still processed. I only know this because the person who's done it has confirmed it. In the context of a mix there's little evidence, if any at all. And if you listen to backing vocals of the last decade versus BVs from say 30 years ago, you really hear the difference - not because modern ones necessarily sound like they've been worked on, but because the old ones sound just a little bit out of tune in comparison.

I've done work on singers' recordings where I've fixed the pitch and they haven't even noticed it on their own voice, in isolation (which really is the sound everyone knows best). If done well (and appropriately), it doesn't turn it into awful processed rubbish, it can tweak an otherwise brilliant performance and make it near-perfect. I say this as a recording engineer who loves the sound of a band playing together, and would always sacrifice separation / absolute recording quality for the communication and feel that you get with a live band playing together how they normally do - I wouldn't sacrifice personality for pitch, but I think you can improve on nearly everyone's performance in some places.

Having said that, the flip side of this is that people think 'they can fix that in the mix' when they've not given a great performance... and that's never the case!

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nineteen9997y ago

> it can tweak an otherwise brilliant performance and make it near-perfect

That's what I'm getting at - "perfect" is something that the human voice does so infrequently on its own so when we hear the "perfect" performance, we know it's been doctored.

As a point of reference, I look back at something like the Boswell sisters. Some of their early stuff was recorded in mono direct to wax disc but they were so skilled, well rehearsed and sung as a unit so closely bonded that the resulting sound is fantastic despite the primitive technology. The three individual voices aren't even recorded to seperate tracks since multitracking wasn't invented then.

Granted you can't really draw a direct comparison between that and Robbie Williams, Cher or T-Pain, but I know which I'd rather listen to any day. There are a lot of singers I've seen live and talked to over the years who wouldn't be caught dead touching up their stuff, or letting an engineer/producer do it behind their back - even if it meant missing out on a commercial recording contract.

I do appreciate where you're coming from though. I'm a little old fashioned I guess in that sometimes the mistakes that made it through improve the performance in my mind. It reminds you that the performers are human.

TheOtherHobbes7y ago

Vocal perfection is about attitude and projection, not pitch.

Autotune is orthogonal to creating that perfection. If someone has it Autotune won't take it away, no matter how obviously it's used.

If someone doesn't have it, Autotune won't give it to them.

nineteen9997y ago

I agree with all your points. I think the obsession with completely perfect vocal performance has gone too far for my personal taste. Modern mainstream pop records have a combination of too many takes spliced together for one "perfect" take, together with minor correction of the odd note here and there and the end-to-end result is "too perfect" for my old ears. There's no mistakes or personality in many of these records and it sounds boring to me. That's all. I'm not claiming to have the only valid opinion on the matter, or that all modern music is like that, and I also know I'm also not alone in my thinking and taste.

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nineteen9997y ago

> it can tweak an otherwise brilliant performance and make it near-perfect

That's what I'm getting at - "perfect" is something that the human voice does so infrequently on its own so when we hear the "perfect" performance, we know it's been doctored.

TheOtherHobbes7y ago

Vocal perfection is about attitude and projection, not pitch.

Autotune is orthogonal to creating that perfection. If someone has it Autotune won't take it away, no matter how obviously it's used.

If someone doesn't have it, Autotune won't give it to them.

nineteen9997y ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse