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0 pointselliekelly7y ago0 comments

I didn't say it was illegal slave labor. But it's absolutely slave labor. Under Federal law its defined as "the services of a person... by means of force, threats of force, physical restraint, or threats of physical restraint to that person or another person."[1] Imprisonment is a physical restraint. If you pull the entire statute you'll notice that consent isn't a defense. That's because consent and coercion are mutually exclusive.

The Thirteenth Amendment abolished slavery and involuntary servitude except as a punishment for crime.

Make no mistake, those "volunteers" are modern day slaves. They may have the blessing of the Constitution, but they're slaves nonetheless. Colorado actually just officially outlawed it last week.[2] A few other sources:

- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/30/opinion/national-prison-s...

- https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/prison-strike-modern-da...

- https://eji.org/history-racial-injustice-prison-labor

[1] 18 U.S. Code § 1589

[2] https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/6/18056408/c...

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craftyguy7y ago

Federal, sure, but not all inmate firefighters are in federal prison, and some (most?) states have voted to remove the 'except as punishment for crime' bit.

elliekellyOP7y ago

Removing the language doesn't suddenly not make it slavery. When the states remove that language it means prison labor programs (such as the one in California) are unconstitutional. Why? Because those programs are slavery and when that language is removed those programs no longer have the exemption that made it constitutional.

craftyguy7y ago

Wat? Are you arguing that all imprisonment is 'slavery' since it entails physically constraining prisoners? With that definition any institution that 'physically constrains' people is slavery, including public schools which prohibit students from leaving during school hours. Those students are physically constrained from leaving the premises, for example. In many cases there's even a cop to enforce it.

You mentioned Colorado, and I implied Colorado and others that have followed suit, in my earlier comment which I assumed that you read before you wrote this reply.

Your #1 source does not mention the text you attributed to it. And it's an opinion piece. It mentions that the inmates who volunteer to work do so for low wages. Well, they could also choose not to work on those programs. What proof do you have that they were coerced (I'm actually not arguing against it, but looking to correct my opinion if necessary).

In any case, states do things that the federal government does not agree with all the time (legal weed, for one). It's a crucial feature of our system of government.

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0 pointselliekelly7y ago0 comments

The Thirteenth Amendment abolished slavery and involuntary servitude except as a punishment for crime.

- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/30/opinion/national-prison-s...

- https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/prison-strike-modern-da...

- https://eji.org/history-racial-injustice-prison-labor

[1] 18 U.S. Code § 1589

[2] https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/6/18056408/c...

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craftyguy7y ago

Federal, sure, but not all inmate firefighters are in federal prison, and some (most?) states have voted to remove the 'except as punishment for crime' bit.

elliekellyOP7y ago

craftyguy7y ago

You mentioned Colorado, and I implied Colorado and others that have followed suit, in my earlier comment which I assumed that you read before you wrote this reply.

In any case, states do things that the federal government does not agree with all the time (legal weed, for one). It's a crucial feature of our system of government.

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