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0 pointssimonh7y ago0 comments

I have zero sympathy, or concern for the voices of those who chose not to exercise their right to vote.

The 50m (not that many - see Khol's reply) had their chance and blew it, and I say that as someone who voted remain and thinks this whole thing is a disaster, and leaving either with the May deal (bad) or the hard way (worse) would both be worse than staying. However, the people had their chance and they voted to leave. That's how democracy works. It's a serious business with real consequences.

If there is a new referendum it should be about the terms under which we will leave, and that's all. Yes the May deal is crap, but any deal we cut with the EU was going to be a horrible fudge. So much for 'cutting a deal with the EU will be the easiest in human history' because 'we hold all the cards'. I have nothing but sympathy for Theresa May. She's made mistakes, sure, but anyone else would have made their own mistakes.

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martin_a7y ago

Glad to hear such a profound and sane reply. I feel this whole topic is just so heated up, I understand that, that it's hard to talk reasonable about it.

As a German I hope this will be some kind of a lesson for the whole EU and UK and we will hopefully have the UK back in the EU "soon" (don't know how long this might take).

But I think it's important to draw a line now and make a "Brexit". On the one hand to show the consequences to the UK and the other unsteady EU states who might think about using some kind of exit as a vague threat, but, more important, to show the people of the UK that their will and votes are respected. I think that's what's missing in lots of EU states (at least I feel this way for Germany), so this might really be a chance for all of us.

Khol7y ago

The 50m is a slightly misleading point (it includes everyone too young to vote, whatever their viewpoint) but there's a much stronger case to take into account the perspective of the 16m people who voted against this car crash.

To declare that because a poorly defined proposition sold with untruth and misdirection won out in a vote means that we can't reflect on what is now known is absurd.

simonhOP7y ago

If every vote in which the outcome was swayed with misdirection and untruth was invalidated, we’d have to give up on democracy completely. Every view and opinion was expressed and the electorate had plenty of opportunity to make a decision. I certainly feel I had sufficient information to make an informed choice.

I take a longer view. Democracy is a serious business and the fact the referendum decided on a specific outcome matters. Parliament agreed to hold the referendum and agreed to honour it. In the long term interests of the integrity of our nation and system of government, we should face up to and follow through on those commitments.

Jarmsy7y ago

It wasn't just the usual 'misdirection and untruth', the Leave campaigns were found guilty of multiple crimes (and there's still more to investigate). If it had been a binding vote, it would have been invalidated.

ben_w7y ago

> If every vote in which the outcome was swayed with misdirection and untruth was invalidated, we’d have to give up on democracy completely.

I would say the opposite: unless you do that, you have already given up on democracy.

> I certainly feel I had sufficient information to make an informed choice.

So do 93% of both leavers and remainers. Trouble is, these two groups disagree about which statements are true: is the EU democratic? Which is responsible for employment rights? For the level of immigration from Africa and the Middle East? How expensive is it? What benefits does it provide?

It is necessarily the case that around half the UK voters believe total nonsense. I know which side I believe, but that doesn’t really help.

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