TL; DR The dark area is the entire surface of the event horizon, including the side facing away from us, plus some more due to photons missing the event horizon "directly" being drawn in. One side is brighter due to its being Doppler boosted.
Anyways, it is a good one. So is that channel in general.
It is also a good video if you just watched Interstellar, because it also explains why the black hole looks the way it does in the movie. Note that the movie black hole rendering is slightly incorrect for artistic reasons, the video shows the more scientifically accurate version.
Kind of sad that after all the amazing effort and resources that have gone into the creating the image that the international team couldn't have featured an explanation as clear as this in their actual press conference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1tFT4smd6E&feature=youtu.be...
Been able to make testable predictions and then confirming them or disproving them is the entire (awesome) point.
Anything which is not in that radius or not already in a path towards it should be safe from not getting sucked by the black hole.
E.g. If our sun becomes a black hole, Schwarzchild radius would be 2.954Km i.e. anything outside ~3Km would be safe.
This was explained in the scishow video on that topic[1].
The innermost stable circular orbit is further out than the event horizon, 3 times the Schwarzschild radius IIRC. Anything closer to that has an unstable orbit.
Thus far, from all the experiment and result observed, the theory has been proven to be correct.
Hence, it can be said with 99% certainty whatever it predicts must be correct. I hope it does mention about possibility of creating a worm hole.
It is a bit old (2012), but comprehensive and with both good audio and readable* slides.
*: In the sense that you can see the letters on them
Part I: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnJYo6LKzgA
Part II: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlry6LqWwJ0
Peace
He does talk a lot about theory, a lot of it interesting and novel to me, but by the end of the video, most of this theory suggests a different-looking image!
https://static.projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/styles/os_files...
Taken from here: https://eventhorizontelescope.org/science (the official site of the project).
On the left is how it would look like if we weren't so far -- we are 55 million light years far from that. You know the distance from us to our Sun, which you see on the sky but can cover with your own thumb? That object is 3,500,000,000,000 times farther than the Sun is far from us.
On the right is what we can reconstruct from the signals measured because we are so far and we have "only" the telescope the size of the Earth. More details would be visible (the picture would look more like the one on the left) either if we had even much bigger telescope than the Earth, or if the black hole of the same size were much closer to us, which it is not.
He doesn't need to give a reason. The reasons why it would look like a "fuzzy coffee mug stain" are well known since Hawkings...
Here's the image from the movie: https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ut_interste...
Now imagine that image being taken far away by several ground-based telescopes put together at the edge of their capabilities and using math to error correct and stitch together the final result. What you get is what we saw.
https://arxiv.org/abs/1309.3519
It matches quite good, I'd say. Page 4.
This is of course a bummer, since this means that the acquired image does not give us any new clues of where our understanding of physics is wrong.
Reasoning about an image of a black hole is very much within the realm of standard science. Veritasium was able to explain the prediction using essentially ideas that are so basic they're at the high school level. If our basic understanding of physics down to the high school level was wrong (e.g., very far from the research frontier), there would be very very serious issues.
It's still very early and like the detection of gravitational waves, I think it feels like more of a symbolic step into a new era of space science. It's easy to forget that yesterday, black holes were a result of mathematics and only indirectly shown that they "ought to exist".
So first, I think we need to cut them some slack! Second, I think that if we at all WANT to shatter the Standard Model, I think we first need to be able to do science at the extremes of it! The LHC is one way, probing into the details of black hole mechanics might end up being another
I'm not sure if this image is real color or just lightness value and they used a color scheme for drama.
As for the black hole, looking it at full screen I see it pulsating a little.
The original data was likely linear and at a much higher precision. If the source was a 16 bit linear grayscale PNG for example you could be much more assured you're not seeing the effects of JPG compression and things that were actually measured.
EDIT: Found better sources:
16-bit sRGB PNG: https://eventhorizontelescope.org/files/eht/files/20190410-7...
180 MiB original TIFF: https://www.eso.org/public/images/eso1907a/
It costs more to do a sciency Hollywood movie about than it costs to actually do the science. Sending an actual probe to the orbit of Mars is in general cheaper than making a sci-fi movie.
So...
it's still too many pixel, it can be a fifth of that while conveying the same amount of information.
I'm puzzled by this, if each of those pixel is actually captured by the lenses, why is it all this much uniform? was it smoothed or does this suggest that it's actually a gigantic uniform cloud of gas?
haven't seen the whole video of the release, I'll have to catch up later in the evening, but this really seems to have captured way too much compared to the actual lens resolution and I wonder what would be the "confidence interval" or astrophysical equivalent on each of those pixels.
There is some more info in the wikipedia article for the Event Horizon Telescope (EHT): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_Horizon_Telescope
> The ring is brighter in the south than the north. This can be explained by a combination of motion in the source and Doppler beaming. As a simple example we consider a luminous, optically thin ring... Then the approaching side of the ring is Doppler boosted, and the receding side is Doppler dimmed...This sense of rotation is consistent with the sense of rotation in ionized gas at arcsecond scales ..Notice that the asymmetry of the ring is consistent with the asymmetry inferred from 43 GHz observations of the brightness ratio between the north and south sides of the jet and counter-jet
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8213/ab0f43
(Edit 2:) Ahh, I see your comment now says "did come out". I initially read it as "did not come out", which was either a misreading on my part (likely) or an earlier edit by you.
Kip Thorne describes his work not this in a book called the science of interstellar.
Kip’s description of black holes here is also fascinating: https://youtu.be/oj1AfkPQa6M — first time I learnt what “warped” space-time means :)
[0] https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/
[1] https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2018/11/26/epis...
Kip has studied black holes all his life — this podcast goes into the work on LIGO that finally got Kip (and collaborators) the Nobel Prize. I found it amusing that there is some “Nobel guilt” for scientists that comes with the prize, because the size of them teams that usually collaborate and make a large project like LIGO happen (over 20 years) is incredibly large.
I also find it inspiring that Kip speaks with so much... love ... about warped space time :)
There is a video that I cannot find where Christopher Nolan describes the process of rendering the black hole for his movie - they used Kip’s equations to render Gargantua and when the first images were seen, he realized that Kip has never actually seen a black hole before - even though he has spent his entire life studying it.
Definitely going to listen to his podcast!
In this video he makes a comment which I struggle to fully understand:
He says that ALL of the matter which belonged to the cooled-off star is DESTROYED in the process of creating a black hole.
That concept of complete destruction eludes me. I assume what he means is, the matter was converted entirely to energy. Right?
But if that's true - where is all of that energy? Is it stored (somehow?) in the Black Hole? Is it dispersed throughout the galaxy? What HAPPENED to the mass (energy)?
As to what physically happens to the stuff once it's inside, I don't know if we know for certain. It gets dragged towards the center. From the point of view of the rest of the universe, it might never actually reach the singularity: GR would make it look like it's going slower and slower and slower.
Speculation about what is actually inside the event horizon is at most mathematical extrapolation, since we can't actually crack one open and look.
It's a nice contrast to opening the papers and reading the regular news, dominated by politics, with all the pessimism that creates.
Hooray for science.
As one of the scientists said in the interview, the next step is a telescope bigger than the earth. Hopefully we can collaborate on those too but if that involves a lot of satellites in a heliocentric orbit that may limit contributions considerably.
> It literally can’t exist without broad support from many countries.
This is the same constraint for the, let's call it, "peace on Earth" problem, or just "peace".
If only more of us could realize this is what it takes to solve that problem... which itself is part of the puzzle, i.e. how to increase awareness about the need to solve this.
While there are a number of people and organizations trying to do this, I see that there seems to be more possible fronts that could be used to tackle this and accelerating the reach for stability and sustainability of the state of peace.
One example of a possible front (and I honestly don't know if those already exist) is: through marketing it would be possible to influence people enough to be interested in the outcome of "peace on Earth" and pay some money for that, in a way that it doesn't feel like a donation, and more like an investment or maybe acquiring a service that would be hopefully realized in the coming years (hence the importance of the marketing capacity of that entity, as this mindset needs to be set in the consumers in order to make them buy the good).
Of course, the reporting to the consumers on the use of the invested money toward that effort has to be as transparent and honest as possible, as those approaches are arguably required for a sustainable state of peace. And hopefully it would make enough sense for an entity to operate in the way of the outcome it is seeking. Even though we are moving from a state of no-peace, which is hopefully unsustainable. In other words the effort could be be defined as "safely and confidently accelerating the maximum point of unsustainability of the no-peace state such that it inevitably transitions to a sustainable state of peace".
That's then possibly a private endeavor (not that it could not be a public one as well, but you need to raise enough money to pay for the possibly expensive marketing and then pay all of its employees), because there is now an identifiable market willing to pay some amount in exchange for obtaining the "product" of peace, which in other words just mean the modulation of humanity and its mindset in order for it to operate in such a way that it is always aligned to its own common good, or maximum known state of well-being, sustainably.
We already know that groups and individuals are not great at doing that, on average. So if an individual is not always able to operate towards its own good, or maybe some are but don't have access to the resources that would allow them to do so, how could then a group of individuals be able to do so? Unlikely.
And yes, exploring the universe and finding more about its mysteries and teaching humanity about them is a valid and great approach and a subset of all the possible approaches.
It is a subset because in order for an individual to be interested in knowing more about the mysteries of the universe, or consciousness and other topics, they have to have this mindset, well, set in the mind.
Therefore there are many more fronts that could be, and to many extents currently are, covered. So all I'm arguing here is we are not doing enough to reach the tipping point before possible big catastrophes happen, therefore we should do a lot more than what we're currently doing. There are many entity/company/organization models to explore that could benefit us in a spectrum of possibilities ranging from private to public.
https://iopscience.iop.org/journal/2041-8205/page/Focus_on_E...
Article in physics world with comparisons to simulations:
https://physicsworld.com/a/first-images-of-a-black-hole-unve...
"AskScience" AMA on Reddit about the breakthrough:
https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/bbknik/askscien...
>"Hi, regarding the image itself: What I don't understand is why does it look like a donut and not a bright sphere? Assuming the black hole is actually spherical and not disc shaped, I would expect the Halo to be spherical and surrounding the black hole? so all we would see would be the ball of bright gas, even though there is a black hole in the middle?"
This is also what I would have expected.
You might be interested to know that this is the same reason all the planets in our solar system orbit in the same disk: all the matter that is now in our solar system was originally a very thin cloud of gas with a small amount of overall angular momentum. As gravity drew it together it flattended out into a disk and eventually the clumps became planets (and the sun in the middle.)
This ted talk has a very basic explanation of how they constructed this image. I was curious if anyone with image interpolation experience could weigh in on the method. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7n2rYt9wfU
When she first starts explaining their method around 8:00m in, I was initially very skeptical of this result because she said that they feed images of what we "think" a black hole should look like and use algorithms to compare the captured data with those images.
She then goes into explaining the measure they take to keep the resulting image from being biased by passing environmental images and images of other astronomical anomaly to make sure that those images return similar results.
But I can't for the life of me figure out how passing non-stellar imagery could return something similar. And if it does, why do we need to feed it an example of what we think it should look like at all?
With interferometry, you're getting an incomplete sampling of the Fourier transform of the sky image, and if you just invert the samples, you get what we call a "dirty" image.
But you know your sampling of the Fourier plane exactly, since that's just a function of the projected baselines between every pair of telescopes during the observation, so you can create a "dirty beam" - now all you have to do is remove the effects of the dirty beam from the dirty image. Of course, that's a deconvolution problem, and given that you don't have all the information - you sampled it - it can never be exact.
But it can be very good! There are very sophisticated radio synthesis image deconvolution algorithms, including CLEAN and Maximum Entropy. For Maximum Entropy methods, you can apply a Bayesian prior on your images - most of the time, the prior we apply is a blank sky (seriously!) but if we have other constraints that we can use (e.g., the approximate size of the region with extended emission), Bayes tells us that we would be remiss not to use it.
If you look at this image [1] from Paper IV [2], we show the image results from different techniques on different observing days. Those are the inputs to what is the "consensus image" - you can check how close they all are to each other.
Does that make sense...?
[1] https://iopscience-event-horizon.s3.amazonaws.com/2041-8205/... [2] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8213/ab0e85
[0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUyH3XhpLTo&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxjuE7WDlk
They talk about how the image was produced, and how they made such a small image out of the 5 PetaByte of data they gathered from stations all over the world.
It's very well communicated in a way most can understand, it's concise and it has great accompanying graphics.
Even today, never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of disks...
https://twitter.com/karlglazebrook/status/111598136971105894...
That's probably why they had several analysers that they then combined into progressively larger teams until they could produce this Consensus-A picture.
Basically, the image has been constructed by calculations on massive measurement data-sets from multiple synchronized telescopes around the world.
So this isn't a "photo" in the normal sense. It's a reconstruction of many, many radio waves.
Sunspots look black relative to the rest of the sun but are actually very bright. Could this be the same thing? How did they set the black level? Is there a description of the procedure somewhere?
EDIT:
Found the paper describing the data processing: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8213/ab0c57
[0] http://people.csail.mit.edu/klbouman/
How do they know what appears "black" in the image is really black vs. relatively black?
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/04/harvard-scien...
“arising from the rapid atmospheric phase fluctuations, wide recording bandwidth, and highly heterogeneous array”
(Filtering out bad data)
On the other hand, the jet from the M87 black hole is quite large and we have good images of it. It's even resolvable by amateurs, I hope to take a picture of it over Easter with a small telescope.
It's enough to confirm various predictions, and should give a new baseline for truth about black holes.
What a time to be alive
Telling that it's a US organization that hosts the actual picture.
esa.int and eso.org seem to be down actually.
I ask because even in a brief history of time, the diagrams are very "single plane of space-time, pulled infinitely deep by the black hole"
2. The event horizon is spherical. Mathematically we treat it as a point. Nobody knows.
3. It's a gravity well, so everything falls towards it like it does towards the earth. Since it's the center of a galaxy, and galaxies form a 2D spin plane, most matter will be circling it, like our solar system circling the sun, so most matter will come from that planar distribution.
We will never see anything fall into a black hole, as in our space-time, this would happen at infinite time. As things get closer, they red shift from our frame of reference due to time dilation, until the light frequencies are so low that we can no longer detect them
I am not a physicist, but from my lay understanding, a black hole (and all other forms of matter) exists in a four-dimensional space-time form that we can experience directly, plus a number of higher dimensions that we can only extrapolate, and observe indirectly via experiment (kind of how a picture of a sphere is not a sphere due to a missing dimension, but you can still tell it's a sphere based on other characteristics). The exact number of higher dimensions is the realm of string theory, and could be 10, 11, 26, or something else.
The singularity of the black hole is one-dimensional, I think (I could be wrong, I'm often wrong). The event horizon is... funny. The outside of the event horizon is in four-dimensional space-time and is more or less "spherical". The inside is a land of theory and debate, because by definition we can't directly observe it from our space-time. Do space and time even exist inside the event horizon? I dunno, ask someone who knows what they're talking about. The best I can do is an analogy. Imagine it's the surface of the ocean. Above the surface, you're in air. Below the surface, you're in water.
Does anyone know if this is aggregated over a long time so it's unlikely to improve with more observation? And what is limiting the resolution at this point?
As an aside: that image is basically black and white. The intensity is just mapped to black -> orange -> white instead of black -> gray -> white.
Furthermore, adding more telescopes will help better image the fainter features in the image (due to larger total collecting surface).
A statement like "it is like viewing a mustard seed X kilometres/miles away would be more appropriate.
And in all seriousness, I have started watching again everything-Star-Trek again (for the 5th time in my life), and news like that make me look up to the sky and think that as a species we do have a chance to move out of here and to a better future.
When interstellar came out wired did a full magazine spread on the movie, covering its science, how they came up with the story and what the director did to make sure it was believable. idk what it looks like online but I've kept the magazine.
The difficulties with Sgr A* are twofold:
- The black hole moves too much during an observation (because it's much closer, and parallax is a thing)
- Sgr A* is much smaller than M87* by mass, so even though it's much closer, the angular diameter is almost the same, and the accretion disk is dimmer.
Also I'd be interested to read how they got around scintallation of the Interstellar Medium.
There is space-based VLBI at lower radio frequencies, with the "Radio Astron" project[0]. That effort works at frequencies which are roughly a factor of ~10 lower than that of the EHT. I'm not aware of any plans for millimeter Space VLBI, but the higher frequency would require higher data rates.
Resolution-wise, the angular resolution is inversely proportional to the farthest baseline, as given by the Rayleigh criterion. [2] To get twice the resolution, you "just" need to double the size of your baseline (and do that in both dimensions, otherwise the angular resolution will be different in x & y). We've maxed out the Earth's baseline, so it seems like orbital radio telescopes are the only way to better resolution. Pretty exciting!
[0] - https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/space-very-long-baseline-i...
[1] - https://asd.gsfc.nasa.gov/blueshift/index.php/2016/07/25/thi...
One of the reasons they've imaged M87* rather than a black hole in our own galaxy was to avoid dealing with ISM scattering - we don't have to look through our edge-on disk, so it's easier to image another galaxy's center somehow. But the Sgr A* image might be in the works already, it was mentioned in both the press-conference and one of the paper's future work section.
https://www.ted.com/talks/katie_bouman_what_does_a_black_hol...
All of the data used to generate the image was gathered by around a dozen different telescopes around the world. The black hole itself also needs to be in a specific configuration in order for us to be able to see it. It needs to have an accretion disk that's generating light. It needs to be sufficiently large or close. And it can't be obfuscated by other astronomical objects like stars or nebulae. This black hole itself is hugeeeeee and far. It's about the size of our solar system, but it's ~52 million light years away.
In line with that analogy, the basic difficulty is simply that they are tremendously small compared to the sizes of galaxies.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/04/magazine/how-do-you-take-...
The author, Seth Fletcher, also wrote a book about it, "Einstein's Shadow: A Black Hole, a Band of Astronomers, and the Quest to See the Unseeable", if you want more details.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36300597-einstein-s-shad...
This is a direct observation of the immediate environment of a black hole, i.e. its accretion disk and other light bent around it.
One at approx 8PM and one at approx 5-6PM (if seen as clock)
Burried in that 5 petabytes of data is likely a scan of a much larger field of view at a similar resolution.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3yzi3dX4AEnoEp.png
> Scientists have obtained the first image of a black hole, using Event Horizon Telescope observations of the center of the galaxy M87. The image shows a bright ring formed as light bends in the intense gravity around a black hole that is 6.5 billion times more massive than the Sun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_interferometer
There are some proposals to do it in space.
https://www.universetoday.com/139566/instead-of-building-sin...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Interferometer_Space_Ant...
I'm wondering if there is a way to do it with holograms (since they preserve phase information): take holograms of the object from opposite sides of the earth and then combine them offline. There are some papers in this direction:
https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00654840/document
(spy satellites probably already do it...)
One day we may even connect millions of smartphones to observe various interesting space phenomena.
Keep in mind that a lot of the details will NOT be in those papers as they have used CASA and AIPS, two standard software tools that have been developed over more than a decade. Details are consequently scattered over many papers. Radio interferometry is not new and there is entire textbooks on the subject. The exiting bit here is not that we go a first image from interferometry but that we have a first image of the region just around a black hole.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26966-interstellars-t...
http://blogs.nature.com/aviewfromthebridge/2017/03/28/imagin...
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:/...
they have not taken a picture of a black hole because that is not possible..
they have at best constructed an image of some effects of a black hole.
This is where top scientists do damage to science for ordinary people when they make fundamental errors in public statements.
Something that has been done for a while is using a single telescope in space in conjunction with some on Earth. Russia has a radio telescope in orbit called Spektr-R. I think it died recently, but Spektr-R did interferometry with other telescopes on Earth. When it was operational, I believe it was the widest VLBI array— its orbit was higher than GEO (and even intersected the moon's!), so it got pretty good distance from the ground.
Because if a black hole is a sphere, then shouldn't the whole thing be golden?
The other factor is that while the event horizon itself is a spheroid, the accretion disk of bright infalling material is not. The horizon is totally black, so it will always look roughly like seeing a disk face-on no matter where you look at it. The accretion disk is a “hoop” that’s stretched and the image is multiplied and distorted by the strong warping of spacetime in the region. As a result you get smeared and repeated views of the entire disk including portion behind the hole in a kind of bent band. Plus the whole thing is subject to strong Doppler beaming hence the bright and dark regions.
How come we even know and predicted the radius and things far away in galaxy without even seeing it. It's just amazing. Wow it just amazes you that scientist even have predicted the radius of thing and how it work etc.[1]
INT. EUROPEAN COMMISSION – PHONE RINGS
SAMARA
Seven days...As a person who has no interest in these intergalactic shenanigans, it looks just like another ball on fire. I wanted to be excited, I really was, but this is just another picture.
A giant leap for mankind, and i fully recognize that, but the awe... nada. It's just another picture really. There is nothing fascinating about it.
Hats off to the people who brought this to us though. I know gravity of the matter and how daunting a task it was. Keep on!