undefined | Better HN

0 pointscortesoft6y ago0 comments

Nonce is short for "number used only once"

0 comments

dtf6y ago

Once is from the Middle English "anes", meaning "one".

Nonce is from "then anes", meaning "the one".

The "-n" got smooshed into the latter word, to become "nonce", rather like "an ewt" became "newt".

It’s also UK slang for peadophile, so be careful that everyone understands you are talking about cryptography not sex offenders if you use the word in public as there could be a nasty misunderstanding!

vidarh6y ago

There's a lot of vocabulary like that. I've had conversations about ensuring a daemon reaped zombie children in public before we realized what it sounded like.

Then there's a lot of master/slave terminology.

rocqua6y ago

Is the term that old? I was told it literally meant N(umber)once.

dtf6y ago

Yes, the construction "for the nonce" goes back to the Middle Ages. The concept of a "nonce word" goes back to 1884, according to this article.

https://www.dailywritingtips.com/nonce-words-for-the-nonce-a...

OJFord6y ago

I'm not necessarily arguing there's shared etymology, but consider 'for the nonce' - it's not merely a made up word used exclusively in cryptography.

mattlondon6y ago

It is also the word for a paedophile which is pretty unfortunate.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/nonce

buu7006y ago

That was confusing for me at first when David Cross was sent to the "nonce wing" in The Increasingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret. It seemed like an odd situation to start chatting about crypto.

lainga6y ago

Cue the old protest that "root" means something vulgar in Australia, and so the Unix superuser should be named something else.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/root#Etymology_2

1 more reply

herodotus6y ago

A "nonce word" is a word that is created to be used once. For example, if we were surfing off the coast near the Kruger National Park, we might send this tweet: "We are on Surfari!" The wikipedia entry for Cryptographic nonce says: "It is similar in spirit to a nonce word, hence the name."

cortesoftOP6y ago

Yeah, I should have said "this is the mnemonic I use to remember what it is"

lisper6y ago

Also known as a hapax legomenon.

TeMPOraL6y ago

I... don't understand how it works. Isn't the Wikipedia page listing these words essentially invalidate their "hapax legomenon" status?

Also, GP's "Surfari" doesn't sound like a word meant to be used once, but as a word meant to be funny and with high probability of becoming a piece of jargon between a band of friends. My wife & I invent words like these all the time (half of them being born from misspelling or moments of confusions). Are they "nonces" too, even though we keep using them?

1 more reply

mcguire6y ago

Which is also a fish creature from the web comic Narbonic.

thaumasiotes6y ago

Nonce isn't short for anything. It's a word, like "number" or "short".

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

dtf6y ago

Once is from the Middle English "anes", meaning "one".

Nonce is from "then anes", meaning "the one".

The "-n" got smooshed into the latter word, to become "nonce", rather like "an ewt" became "newt".

willyt6y ago

vidarh6y ago

There's a lot of vocabulary like that. I've had conversations about ensuring a daemon reaped zombie children in public before we realized what it sounded like.

Then there's a lot of master/slave terminology.

rocqua6y ago

Is the term that old? I was told it literally meant N(umber)once.

dtf6y ago

Yes, the construction "for the nonce" goes back to the Middle Ages. The concept of a "nonce word" goes back to 1884, according to this article.

https://www.dailywritingtips.com/nonce-words-for-the-nonce-a...

OJFord6y ago

I'm not necessarily arguing there's shared etymology, but consider 'for the nonce' - it's not merely a made up word used exclusively in cryptography.

mattlondon6y ago

It is also the word for a paedophile which is pretty unfortunate.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/nonce

buu7006y ago

That was confusing for me at first when David Cross was sent to the "nonce wing" in The Increasingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret. It seemed like an odd situation to start chatting about crypto.

lainga6y ago

Cue the old protest that "root" means something vulgar in Australia, and so the Unix superuser should be named something else.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/root#Etymology_2

1 more reply

herodotus6y ago

cortesoftOP6y ago

Yeah, I should have said "this is the mnemonic I use to remember what it is"

lisper6y ago

Also known as a hapax legomenon.

TeMPOraL6y ago

I... don't understand how it works. Isn't the Wikipedia page listing these words essentially invalidate their "hapax legomenon" status?

1 more reply

mcguire6y ago

Which is also a fish creature from the web comic Narbonic.

thaumasiotes6y ago

Nonce isn't short for anything. It's a word, like "number" or "short".

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse