Obviously there's some non-user-facing stuff, i.e. all-wheel-drive, which computerization has revolutionized. But any user-facing stuff is just awful. I want an electric car, but I don't want to be forced into some awful proprietary OS touch screen just to adjust my A/C, and I'm afraid companies are using the switch from gas to electric as an excuse to go in that direction.
In accordance with Parkinson's Law of Triviality[1], the only discussion my post has generated has been about the experience of touch screens versus knobs, without talking about the more complicated repairability and security issues. My impression of Tesla is that they understand Parkinson's Law very well, and are working hard to get the color of the metaphorical bike shed just right. That's not to say that they're getting the nuclear reactor completely wrong, it's just to say that everyone's talking about the bike shed when the nuclear reactor is way more important.
At the end of the day, what I said was ultimately my preference, and your preference is your preference, and there aren't an objective arguments we can make that will change each other's subjective preferences. I'm just frustrated that the direction the industry seems to be going will cater to what you want, and not to what I want.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-pur...
The fact that part of this update puts Netflix and Hulu in a car is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard.
Car companies figured out instrumentation a while ago, it’s not something that needed to be ‘disrupted’.
Most of the dumb stuff seems to come from designing a car that isn’t meant to be driven. @ Folks who don't want to drive your cars, the solution exists, it’s called public transit, and the reason it sucks is because of cars.
But in general I agree, I don't want to be battling some interface whilst I'm trying to drive.
I'm surprised there havent been moves in Europe to ban the Tesla type, everything on a tablet setup. I'm not allowed to use a phone whilst driving, why is a big screen on the centre console any different?
And then you have companies like Mazda who actually advocate the return of analog control (mentioned in another comment here).
...but then most modern cars seem to have abysmal visibility through the back windows anyway. The rear view from a 20 year old Micra I often drive is excellent, much better than any of the more modern cars I have hired.
I'm not really opposed to reversing cameras by themselves, but a) it takes up dashboard real estate for a feature I don't really use, and b) as soon as you put a screen on the dashboard, the company is going to want to put all sorts of annoying "features" into it.
Boy is it a thrill driving a car you have no instrumentation for! You can't even see how fast you're going.
I love Carplay in my car, but I'm luck enough ti have physical volume and next/last track button on a steering wheel stalk.
Yeah, I can agree that some digital readouts are okay. It's really difficult to communicate succinctly what I don't like about modern digital car interfaces.
If you've ever sat in a recent upscale European car, you can. Unlike touch-screen keyboard solutions, entering destinations via scroll-wheel keyboard (like BMW does) or via guided voice entry is easily and safely possible while driving.
I already have a smartphone, which does both of these things better, and which I've already configured to my liking. The only thing a car can do better than my phone for either of these use cases is audio, so just give me a jack please.
They have a supplier that has been doing analog knobs for them for half a century, and they're kind of obliged to still use their knobs.
Also the designers are very much in the "everything has to have a button" -mindset, which is hard to get out of.
Me (driving): Alexa/Siri set temperature to 70 degrees
Alexa/Siri: temperature set to 70 degrees
I would love this, already do it with my smart thermostat + Alexa skill integration.
So for example the volume up button should always be a volume up button. They shouldn't change function because in some other menu I picked "temperature" instead of "volume".
But I can do that now using the voice commands on the v10 update. I know there's a guy who tinkers with the firmware code and found that the voice commands for temp and other settings are dormant on a previous update.
"Okay Sizzle, switching to Centigrade temperature scale"
'No! Alexa, switch to Fahrenheit' (system hears 'far ride')
"Okay Sizzle, going into long-range mode" turns off AC, music, etc
Voice controls in a car sounds good in theory but horrible in practice. I remember someone showing me one of the older pre smart assistant systems, him having to shout 'call X' 3 times and in the end it called the work instead of personal number
When you grow old and don't understand the future technology... Guess the future is now
This might be a situation where Tesla Smart Summon works only when Tesla's are still rare. In areas where they are more common, I imagine a traffic jam of confused driverless Teslas trying to move past each other but get stuck in a small lane like the one in the video.
It's just a really bad parking lot design.
Regardless, Smart Summon doesn't currently care about things like directionality in a parking lot. This version doesn't try to do anything fancy like reading markings on the pavement.
The app will show you on a satellite map the route that the car is planning to go, assuming this release follows what was shown in the early access releases.
As the person supervising its behavior, it's currently solely your responsibility to make sure that the car doesn't cause problems for other people. The car will do its best to avoid hitting anyone or anything while still making it to your location, but you're still the one in charge.
Smart summon currently works via a dead man's switch. You have to hold down a button the entire time, and if you let go of the button for any reason, the car immediately stops.
The long-term goal is that supervision won't always be necessary, of course, but this feature is available now -- with supervision. If you see an opportunity to use it, it's there. It will get better. I've personally watched Autopilot grow up from something barely usable as a driver assistance technology to something that works extremely well for every day usage.
Isnt that below minimum viable product for something expected to be used with other people around?
"As the person supervising its behavior"
I'm sure Uber said the same thing to the drivers on its self driving program.
We all know human nature though, it isn't right to abdicate responsibility to someone you know is going to start blindly trusting your 'good enough' system.
As a non Tesla owner, I don't want to be an inadvertent beta tester for these technologies.
Summon is the canary in the coal mine. As in, unless it shows signs of life then the fairy tale of self driving cars is just that, a fairy tale. If they cannot get a safe an accurate summon to work why should I ever believe my car will ever drive on its own. Do I believe it will come, not for years. My car cannot even identify a speed limit sign, maybe version 10 will help on that. I doubt it, v10 is all about what it can do while parked.
I am so damn tired of them adding features for when I AM NOT DRIVING MY CAR. As in, I don't need Hulu or Netflix or such, this is all part of the disconnect at Tesla. They have sold even themselves that autonomous driving is RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER that they completely ignore improving quality of life features while driving, namely their blue tooth support for smart phones is poor, ten year old poor. It is illegal to use my phone physically while driving but if I want to change the play list my car is getting from my phone I have to resort to using my phone. This is a common feature on most cars today but Tesla never has had it. when pressed we get sycophants defending the decision because autonomous driving is coming "real" soon.
Even more laughable, they never delivered on promised voice commands. I can tell the car where to go but heaven help me if I want it to change radio stations or select a new play list from my phone. Even voice control for Slacker is nothing more than a glorified Siri look up a song and hope it gets the right one.
love my car but am not impressed much with their direction when it comes to adding features to the car. They almost got automatic wipers working consistently but automatic high beams is as spastic as a Jack Russel Terrier.
ps: when asked, would I buy the car again? No. I do not care for their direction in software; namely focusing on what it can do while I am not driving it. I want a car that responds to me and makes tasks easier, not one that focuses on stuff to do while parked and charging, if its charging I certainly am not going to sit around in it. I already have been sitting for three plus hours driving it likely
"Those using Smart Summon must remain responsible for the car and monitor it and its surroundings at all times."
Sure, when I'm dealing with a fussy kid in a parking lot, I can monitor the car over there and its surroundings at all times. That's what I usually do, forget about watching the kid.
Best car I've ever owned by a lot.
People sure do get mad about Blutooth.
Also, at least they're able to have a 'software direction'. Not aware of any other manufacturer who provides anywhere near this level of OTA upgrades.
And obviously the autopilot team is a different one than the people installing games. Chill.
Both speed limit sign detection, and self driving on the freeway worked flawlessly for me.
I guess YMMV.
> My car cannot even identify a speed limit sign
My Model S can and it has AP1. It's very good at this. Has it ever made a mistake. Not that I'm aware and I've checked a lot. I'll see a speed limit sign and as I pass it, the speed limit sign on the drivers console will update.
ps: You have some pretty high standards for driver-assist technology. What did you drive before and what would you get if you had to choose today?
This is perhaps not the best example to use in this thread as V10 apparently includes this...
Does it pick up any speed limit signs? I have a newer Corolla and the camera in that car will pick up speed limit signs. It's detection wouldn't be good enough for autopilot, but it is helpful.
They still haven't fixed that?
Works almost perfectly in my 2015 Model S with version 1 autopilot.
I wonder what kind of road rage this might induce.
edit: the parent comment edited his comment to include "no right way", which I'd like to address: it is very common (at least in every America city I've ever been to) for parking lots to have lanes that are very clearly marked for only one-way travel. These lanes, like the one shown in the video, are typically only wide enough for one car, and if someone is going the wrong way down one, there's a good chance they'll cause a traffic jam if they encounter someone who is going the right way.
Sure, since it's in a parking lot you might not get a ticket from a police officer. But these rules and established traffic flows still exist for a reason, and if Smart Summon disregards them, it has the potential to cause some incredibly inconvenient situations for both the Tesla owner and anyone else involved.
Also hoping they install WiFi at superchargers so you can watch youtube/Netflix while charging there. Not sure where else I'd use that feature.
The Spotify integration in v9 is so non-functional for me that I just use Bluetooth.
It seems to have zero ability to retry on network failure, and once it’s failed, it basically doesn’t work again on that trip unless you want to reboot the whole MCU.
Another reason I stopped using it is that if I have an audio book on my phone, if Spotify is selected then my phone will start playing the audiobook in the background over Bluetooth to nowhere while spotify plays on the speakers, thus losing my place in the book while I drive.
I thought Spotify dev was in Sweden, is that not the case?
(Just don't use the vending machines there; got some expired snacks :/)
In my experience, Superchargers are ALWAYS near 1) coffee, 2) food, 3) bathrooms.
It’s sad seeing people fling mud because someone wants to comment that they enjoy something about TFA as a user of said product.
Incidentally, my son is going to go absolutely bonkers once v10 downloads to my TM3, and I will be feeling approximately the same inside, but will do my best to model a slightly more level reaction.
You will quickly find that this is NOT the majority. I frequent those forums and most users are very satisfied with their cars.
They are apparently currently in the “support hell” phase of growth... They’ll get past it
Then one time I decided to tether it to my phone. Soon after I got a software update, and I went ahead and applied it.
Big mistake. The update not only changed the GUI substantially, but also broke the navigation system and the voice command system.
The navigation system now gives two or three instructions and then nothing, it'd still be active and following the route on screen, but no more instructions.
The voice command system took around 5 seconds to get ready to record, while it was instantaneous before the update.
I took it in for service. They seemed to know about the navigation system problem. But all they could do was to apply the latest update. It didn't fix the navigation system, and the voice command system now takes around 10 seconds to get ready.
Overall I still like the car, but I don't think I'll ever get another, not while they're still pushing out half-baked software updates that could potentially cripple critical functionalities.
I don't get all of the anti-Tesla vitriol, I'm honestly curious what fuels it. It's like all objectivity get's thrown out the window.
Welcome to the internet? Tesla is just a divisive topic around here and only a small percentage of that concerns their products.
As somebody usually only watching these threads it's quite amusing to be honest. On one side you have the people that just don't like Musk, or those with legit concerns like the right to repair folks. On the other hand you have a mix of satisfied owners and people that for some reason to into full "somebody is wrong on the internet" mode. There rarely ever seems to be any constructive discussion in these threads, any praise devolves into mud swinging, every criticism is jumped upon or dismissed.
Teslas are disruptive - they're not what you expect of cars. I will never look the same at a car again. Tell this to anyone who doesn't understand, and they simply won't understand what you're going on about.
Over a year in; driving my Model X still makes me smile.
Feature parity would (for me) require at least:
1) Same price point 2) Decent size, bigger than a Leaf, but still not SUV-big 3) Same range with same carrying capacity 4) Something that would compete with the Supercharger network 5) The Geek factor. I want a super-techy EV, not something that's exactly like a normal car, except electric.
Perhaps mix that with some other less than attractive traits.
it’s unfortunate because i’m sure there are some cool thoughts and idea out there on HN but it’s always ruined by negativity. in which, watch this comment get downvoted to oblivion.
- Just stating bad press has some connotation of "fake news", there is a lot of bias in the media regarding Musk and Tesla. So much that it is close to impossible to get a fact based view. Yet, the facts ot there aren't that great, especially regarding the finances. So if you are making a point about opinions being based on bad press alone and criticize others, provide fact and data.
- Saying others talk garbage is kind of a personal attack, you might want to refer again the posting guidelines.
- One of the interesting points about HN is the multitude of opinions, you don't have to agree to learn something new. Quite the contrary. And here the guidelines come in to have an open discussion.
On a side note, I didn't downvote you. Reason is because in threads like these it doesn't help a lot anyways. Also, I think personal opinions about the discussions here themselves are perfectly fine. Just tone it down with regards to opinions you don't necessarily agree with.
But really be careful how much Android you're talking about. There are some brands really using Google's automotive services; this is not our strategy. When you do this, you get a great package of function and services, no doubt. But you also have to open up all the car's sensor data [to Google], and when I say all, it really is all sensor data," Senger told me.
(statement from Christian Senger, mentioned by Ars as being VW Group's Digital Car and Services division)
Car manufacturers of luxury cars shy away from Android Auto partially because they believe it turns one of their main selling points and silos (advanced technology) into yet another commodity.
I don't even care that it requires USB.
Beyond just the normal controls (which can sometimes be hit or miss once you're in CarPlay/AndroidAuto mode) the extra little functionalities you notice are amazing. A good example is when using Google Maps I can zoom in/out by just pinching the touchscreen in the car, or I can use the physical dial (normally for changing radio stations) to control the zoom level, or scroll through selections. If you change contexts, what the physical dial control change along with them, and its really slick once you get used to it.
Simple examples:
1) If you accidentally tell the car or the phone not to use CarPlay for a particular phone, there is no obvious way to get it to ask again
2) If you are connected to the same phone via Bluetooth AND CarPlay’s USB connection (...why does it even permit this to begin with??)... Wonkiness results
3) My S.O. refuses to use Waze on it because Waze’s own notifications overlay/BLOCK important elements of its own nav and are not trivially dismissed (do they even test these things??)
These are just off the top of my head in an Audi, hardly a run-of-the-mill car.
Try a Tesla’s UI for a while, and CarPlay will seem like garbage. It becomes very clear why they didn’t go with it. I only wish it had Waze on it, and then I could get rid of my phone mount.
part of the linux foundation
But yeah no nothing to do with data rights on Apple’s end, google does want more data though.
It was very pricey but I got a ProClip mount for my phone. Phone slots right in, automatically starts charging and Android Auto loads right up.
AA/Carplay will win in the long term, simply due to the fact that there's a larger market and app makers can publish their own apps. In other words, I can use Pocket Casts in my Chevy Volt, but need to use a phone screen + bluetooth audio in my Tesla.
I guess I would end up using my phone over Bluetooth, negating much of the benefit the large touchscreen in the Tesla provides, ending up fiddling with my phone to change songs etc.
People are going to point out the privacy issues inherent in using Android, and I understand the complaint, but Google already knows my speed and location at all times anyway just by virtue of having my phone on me. I don't think Android Auto would have any interaction with the cameras or sensors, since most other cars do not have them, but perhaps others can speak to this.
Regardless, this has really diminished my interest in getting a Tesla.
Does this come with an "oh god, stop!" button of some sort?
There must be additional safety features in the software to avoid collision with obstacles? Sonar sensors?
> You can use this while being distracted by a fussy child[1].
> [1] You must be paying full attention to the car.
It’s a “continuing going” button. And if the connection to the car is interrupted even briefly then Summon deactivates.
This is how Summon has always worked. I’ve had my phone die while using it. The car stopped before the shut down spinner graphic even showed up.
Tesla is not your father’s car.
But, it is (at least at that price point).
Whenever I see a mercedes/audi/mclaren/tesla/maserati/bentley, it's almost always an older adult driving (40-60 if I had to guess). Probably because these cars aren't affordable for people until late in their career.
(I'm in upstate NY, the demographics are surely on the younger side in the bay area where you have tech workers who earn enough early in their career to afford it)
That style marketing video is incredibly confusing given the target market.
He had just bought a Model S for his wife. He said, “I’ve always, always bought Mercedes. Oh man. Oooooh man. That thing. It’s just. So fast. You push the gas and...”
I thought about saying, “What gas?” But I just congratulated him on his (wife’s) new car.
(I drive a TM3, is why he approached me.)
I could imagine smart summon really doing something bad, since it is using tech that just isn't ready.
Fortunately the volume knob is in a fixed location so I can use it without taking my eyes of the road and the skip/play buttons are on the steering wheel.
While aircraft use glass cockpits , the important controls keeping it in the sky are still good old button/levers even with different shapes/textures.
- jaguar vs tesla
- blackberry vs iphone
- accessibility vs simplicity
- function vs form
- classic vs modern
They are both really good products, but some will prefer the blackberry and some the iPhone. The only thing we have in common, is always be ranting about why the other product is bad.
This is a conscious decision because signs are easily spoofed by black tape. Because speed limits change so infrequently, it is much easier and safer to pull from a lookup table than to read dirty signs and rely on CV...
Humans can also be spoofed by black tape but humans, usually, have common sense to realize that going 100 in a small city road is probably a very bad idea.
For internet, you have to be in Wifi range, add a SIM card to the radio, or tether from your phone. (I tether or use the house Wifi).
It's fun to add a bluetooth OBD2 dongle, so I can watch vacuum/boost on the screen with the Torque app (or diagnose car problems, it is an old car..).
https://www.amazon.com/Eonon-Bluetooth-Navigation-Support-Sy...
I'm guessing parking lots are private property?
I can't imagine it is legal anywhere fully automated, unsupervised cars are not, even places that have supervised autonomous testing, since there is no driver at the controls. Of course, if you are someplace the public driving laws don't apply, and no private rules have yet been adopted against it, you might be okay even in jurisdictions where self-driving vehicles aren't allowed.
> I'm guessing parking lots are private property?
They are, but in CA they frequently have signs notifying that the public Vehicle Code applies and is enforced.
Edit: By enthusiast, I mean track/motorsport/etc enthusiast. I borrowed a Model S from a friend of mine for a few days and while I enjoyed it, it wasn't the most exciting drive, and I can't imagine it would be much good on a track. Amazing technology though.
Driving an electric tesla made all of those cars feel utterly dumb.
If you drive cross country a lot or do long track sessions, I get it, tesla won't work well, but if you don't think an enthusiast would like a tesla, give one a try.
They are presently testing red-light detection in shadow mode on the whole AP2/3 fleet, for example.
"Call wife on mobile" or "Call wife on work" and it works.
I tested this on a 2016 Model X, 2015 Model S and 2019 Model 3.
Oh no.
Perhaps not the greatest of ideas
Or maybe its while stationary only?
It's supposed to entertain while charging. Same with the games.
I don't have a surround sound system in my home, but I do in my Model 3! Looking forward to trying it out :)
“YouTube, and Hulu or Hulu + Live TV accounts to watch your favorite shows, movies and content right from your car while parked.”
Wait what.. you're encouraging drivers to look at the entertainment panel to read song lyrics? While they're driving?
> Tesla notes that while you can play the tracks while driving, the feature will only display the lyrics when the car is in park. That’s a bit of a shame for road trips with the family, but safety first.
