I was always into tech but this video makes me want to throw all my devices away, move to some old house in abandoned Spanish village and grow my own tomatoes. And the disturbing part is that I am not even sure why - on its face value it seems great, you get to talk to people from all around the world and that is cool, right? But my intuition tells me that we are not wired for this and if it gains traction, something terrible will come out of this.
I like to keep up with new tech and I was looking at the viral Houseparty [1] and Airtime [1] apps the other day. While I'd never do anything like that with my friends, when I checked the reviews it was mostly 12yr kids (some say their age in the review for some reason) and I could imagine myself at a younger age loving this stuff.
The kids could use it when they are stuck in their bedroom and want to to 'hang out' with friends after school. Watching Youtube videos or simple games combined with live video chat and texting.
I could see a similar use case here with VR.
The whole 'spectator culture' watching people playing vide games is a massive phenomenon among kids. But sitting watching a "zany" perpetually hyper guy playing a video game for hours seems foreign to most adults.
The social lives of kids are already heavily intertwined with technology. They don't mind jumping into a multi-party video chat with some friends from school. Doing the same in a VR world sounds just as fun.
There's also always naysayers for every tech launch on HN/internet so it's safe to take it with a grain of salt. Sometimes it's just not meant for you and that's totally fine.
1. https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/houseparty/id1065781769
2. https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/airtime-watch-videos-together/...
And that is exactly the reason why it is not the right direction. Think about it. Why would one choose a virtual world over the new one? Because apparently the real world is not good enough. On the surface the virtual looks better, but if you engage in it, I think you will probably find out that it is as boring and hard as the real one.
People have lived for centuries without it. In those years there have both been plenty of fulfilled lives and unfulfilled lives. Clearly, the shiny happy virtual world is not a prerequisite for a fulfilled live. Now think about what made those lives fulfilling. Whatever the answer, it can be done in the real world. It probably is also not superficial and also not shiny. So trading the current world for the shiny virtual world is not the ultimate solution to whatever it is that you are looking for. It can be a tool, like the telephone is. But not more.
I though the same. I mean there are some things that can easily exist in virtual world, and it may even be enabling for people who can't leave their houses in a literal way (for many different reasons). But as a default? You can likely try new things in person - but the ad made it seem to be a new thing rather than an alternative experience. I guess I'm opposed to that framing.
A well programmed Corporate Robot knows not to act like a visionary. Their job when they do it right, is to keep the factory lights on and set the stage up for the visionaries.
But some of these robots have bugs and end up getting up on to the stage and wasting everyones time.
i would say this is a bug not a feature. it should take time and effort to talk to people all over the world.
While, I agree with you 100% that it was a poor choice of theme for the video, I've never been impressed with the talking point. It has always been presented to me as if they were arguing that the telephone was an isolating, anti-social device.
"Imagine you were hanging out with someone, having a good time. And, out of nowhere they pull this little 'device' out of their pocket and press it against the side of their face. Then they start walking around, looking around at nothing, acting you aren't even there and having a conversation with nobody! What kind of jerk would do that? Not me! Not ever!"
You would be a jerk if you suddenly cut off a conversation to call someone else out of the blue. That's why people don't do that! With phones, stepping out to take a call is considered situationally OK. But, that's not (yet) a user story for VR. Instead, the common story is that you have some time to yourself, maybe you'll watch TV or browse the internets. But, instead you go into VR where it is very convenient and easy to hang out and do wacky stuff with random people all over to the world. Hopefully, when VR becomes more common, it will be somewhat less random people and somewhat more friends and family that you'd like to see more often but don't because of physical inconveniences (like being located in a separate cities/countries/continents).
But it is!
Not that I disagree with you. There are going to be all kinds ugly side effects when VR worlds go mainstream (maybe not Facebook's but eventually). Remember the height of MMORPGs when people were dying of dehydration, murdering each other in the real world and other craziness?
But putting the future of the human race aside for a sec... this is some of the most tone deaf advertising I've seen in a while.
It's almost as if they listed all the major issues that turn people off of VR and then tried to make them selling points.
"People will accept anything if we do low hanging Pixaresque jokes!"
Is this information even available?
ps. yes that video was creepy FB is awful at marketing.
Me and my SO often immerse in different things while in the same room. Could be as simple as both reading fiction, or I could be playing video games while she watches TV.
It's not what we do over breakfast, though! If the video showed couples doing their own thing while it's already dark outside, it would be more natural. VR to me is no more escapist than playing an intense team based FPS online.
Not that I am fan of the idea of a Facebook MMO!
I am a huge fan of the idea of the Matrix, and I don't even think it needs to be gamified to be fun, but the graphics are such a big part of the appeal of VR for me. I would pay a lot of money just for a photorealistic VR house with a beautiful view out the windows and in-world access to my computer - a better place to hack than my usual Starbucks. Why can't we have something like the Unreal tech demos? It's clear that beautiful worlds are possible now: https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/20/18273832/epic-unreal-engi...
If a VR world that looked like the first video in that article existed, it would be huge. But the intro video for Facebook Horizon? I am completely unsold.
This reminds me of higher-res Mii's from the Wii, which was dated tech even at the time.
That said, the most important thing people should be asking is: is it fun? Because if you aren't gonna go super realistic then you had better nail the gameplay (Nintendo or Blizzard style).
Global birth rate is around 150,000 people per day. At Facebook scale that’s not one sucker born every minute but tens of thousands; millions of new Facebook users born every month.
They never played second life or minecraft.
“We” have done this, most humans haven’t.
Yes, but how many of them are going to waste time playing pointless games like Horizon online? How many people that would play such a game haven't already? To say that there are a lot of Facebook users and that that naturally means a lot of players is strange given that VR headsets are still a luxury item and that Facebook Horizon doesn't essentially offer anything novel outside that.
> They never played second life or minecraft.
> "We" have done this, most humans haven't.
Similarly, most humans haven't played Horizon, and there is as far as I'm concerned no compelling reason to believe that a lot of people will. Who would waste their time in that disgusting looking world and present themselves using a bland Wii-like avatar?
Probably less cybering, from the looks of it.
But Dirt Rally on the other hand... That is a different story. VR is great when realism is the goal. Games in zero g environments are cool too.
Rec Room's avatars consist of floating hands, a floating head, and a floating torso, all disconnected. It doesn't seem odd that they don't have legs, because their other features are more removed from the human form. Facebook's, on the other hand, are fully-formed cartoon characters from the waist up, more on the order of XBox Live avatars. This greater detail makes the lack of detail elsewhere look out of place, and even slightly disturbing given its imposition on a human figure.
I highly recommend people checkout Michael Abrash's keynote discussing some jaw dropping "social teleportation" research: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCB_mfGmh9w&t=1h47m12s
Source: I work remotely.
And I really want to like whatever FB is doing with Oculus, especially given that JC works on it.
But one look at this... "Whatever I'm into", contrary to the claim, is surely not going to be there.
It's a sterile toys-r-us vibe when even Disney gets that a bit less sugar and some grit will go a long way towards suspension of disbelief.
It's the sheer tastelessness (subjective) of this that makes me sad. Candy Crush Saga isn't what I was craving for to fill my entire visual universe.
I'm still glad that we're moving in that direction, but sad that this iteration is not for me.
Guess I'll go watch Zeppelins on my Holmes. It's static 3D, but with more megapixels, and the visuals, even being B&W, are way better.
This prompted me to google "SecondLife VR" and this came up https://www.sansar.com/
But since most people just don't own the hardware, there are many developers that currently still ignore VR. I think the best bet would be for more 3d software to include basic VR support. I would be nice to be able to the controllers, but I would be content with just using classical input methods. That would require you to know the layout of a keyboard, which is probably a big hurdle, but it would still make VR support more common.
That said, I don't think software like this has the correct focus for many enthusiasts. I am not using a device that makes me look like I never want to speak to anybody ever again just to chat up people online. But I am not surprised Facebook went in that direction. Maybe it will have the positive effect of just pulling more people to VR who have a little money on the side to make that investment.
VR on the other hand has the possibility to provide experiences that rival the best the world has to offer, while consuming very little resources. You don't have to commute to work everyday, travel across the planet to experience other countries or buy huge houses to fit all your stuff. I think the rise of shut-ins and hikikomoris is already a sign that a low-resource (i.e. cheap) virtual life is more attractive to many people than the hyper-competitive modern life in gray dystopian metropolises.
This is all of course predicated on solving the health issues with being in VR for long periods of time, like having displays mimicking natural sunlight, unobtrusive headsets, preventing eye-strain and a means for getting exercise.
For me, the "but" is enough to completely outweigh any interest in the first part.
A sterile virtual environment ran by a company that makes money on me giving them my personal info? Not sure I'd want that.
Plus, the fact that this is going to be a VR clone of Second Life without the anonymity and most probably without all the rated M stuff makes me rather sad. A big missed opportunity.
What are these two companies really getting from one another? Whatever it is, I don’t think it’s working.
With 'Facebook Horizon', I'd feel apprehensive about using another one of their products, but ultimately would go for it.
Note: I have nothing specific against Facebook
https://www.oculus.com/blog/introducing-michael-abrash-oculu...
There's been a push for VR since the 90s. The mass public still doesn't get it or want it in terms of ever being something huge.
I believe things like Echo Frames will be a mass product while any VR stuff is and will always be a niche market. Maybe FB hopes differently as they've pushed this isolating yet supposedly social experience for awhile without any type of real adoption.
You were going be able to walk through a museum of your accomplishments. Slay a dragon? Maybe your trophy is a giant dragon skeleton to hang from the roof. Win the NHL playoffs? You can put the Stanley Cup in your achievement hall. You get the idea. Of course, that all ended up on the cutting room floor.
The question with these places is always, "why would I bother visiting them?" The Home trophy hall concept was pure vanity, but I would have enjoyed browsing through and reminiscing. That question remains unanswered for Horizon, at least for me.
I laughed at the legless avatars. So many memes in the making.
I miss the company that built my DK2.
I will be waiting
It could become more of a way to interact with the world than to escape it.
How do you guys bring the point around to average people who don't care about privacy?
First, at scale, if an engineer can think it, statistically speaking there is an engineer who will do it.
So let's pick a theoretical: Imagine you have all these photos of people with their faces - at the club, hugging at the pub etc. Then you can track who has a criminal record, due to what they post, key words, etc. And then you can track who statistically speaking, has a high chance of having a criminal record (but may not have). Then you can track these individuals moving around in various social circles. And then you look at peoples group photos, and raise a flag when there is cross-over between the circles. This is vastly interesting of course, but... who said it was cool to examine me and the people I meet to make that judgement? Even if FaceBook are not doing it now, who said it was cool to amass all this data so they CAN make this judgement, at anytime in the future.
This behaviour in a person is called being "a bit judgey". When facebook do it, it's "a bit judgey"...with parallelized computing and machine learning.
I'm not a criminal. I'm a totally chill guy. It literally wouldn't make me worried for myself if Facebook did this. But, I just find the whole role they can play...annoying.
Not saying that is sufficient, but it definitely helps compared with a startup that has to rely more on having strangers interact or, if meeting with friends, is likely to be higher friction that FB can offer.
...Who on earth thought it would be a good idea not to have legs?!
If this comment gets downvoted, be suspicious. It is going to be well written, but it is does contain accusations against Facebook. My real name is in my About Section so I have no fear of libel. I hate to play this card because I am sort of immunizing myself (or trying to) against downvotes, but you can look through my comments and it’s not something I’ve ever done before.
1. The 3rd Party who led to the breach at Doordash is also a Facebook contractor. A significant amount of Facebook data has been stolen because of this.
2. Dashlane, Deliveroo (UK), Netflix, Uber, AirBnB, Quora, EventBrite, BetterDoctor, and about 10 other firms that I know of are also clients of this contractor as their data was also leaking or obtainable through extremely simple exploits.
3. Yes I did file a Bug Bounty with evidence. FB has acted...sort of...but the evidence is still online, at this moment.
4. I have already begun conversations with ISC2 asking for a significant amount of CISSP cert holders at FB to have their certifications revoked for breach of ethics violations via the “good of society” clause and negligent blindness. I absolutely made sure to have a carve out saying they probably were just ignored by management, and in such case for the names I cited to ignore my claim (and I would write a written public apology if asked).
5. I get that everyone here is tired of FB negativity here. Me too. Just a little longer if you don’t mind.
Again though I still see your point and those claims, if situation was a little more mundane, are absolutely true.
DISCOVER YOU
DEFY PHYSICAL LIMITS
EVER-EXPANDING UNIVERSE
Cripes-on-a-bike
I think there's definitely something to VR, but content is lacking right now.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_(virtual_reality)#Pr...
Screen door effect and all.
I’m waiting for 4K per eye, then I’ll be into it
"I am already in a world where I feel great. I have a rule. Never touch another man's creation.
New things that interests me are already within me, why would I go out and learn something new to create something which I already have in my brain ?
Ever expanding universe - ? Why would I build an universe in someone else's land while I can trust myself and build in my mind? Because its not creativity. Creativity is only when you bring out your thoughts in form of a material world.
ok ok.
I think thats why I have a pen and paper.
I write.
I draw.
I scribble.
I share to people whom I see face to face.
Not by wearing a digital mask.
With my naturally, many light years developed exo-skin as my mask.
That's how I respect my ancestors and anyone before them. It all reaches till the source of the light which is sun."
With this attitude and mindset of a living organism which knows what and who it is, would you expect me to fall for your trick?
Formatted content is here https://iminui.wordpress.com/2019/09/27/facebook-horizon/
We already have an in-built VR capability, it just takes a lot of effort to learn how to access it and use it, but once you do it's pretty crazy stuff.
