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0 pointsUIZealot6y ago0 comments

> Between harmony and human rights, it's absolutely clear to a westerner which one is more important.

What have been the human rights violations from the government, aside from responses to protester violence?

Labeling yourself "human rights" does not automatically make you right.

> It's possible to only say true things and still be biased. This is probably the most common way of spinning a story for "fake news".

Certainly. And you are immune to biases and spinning "fake news" ... how?

> Escalation of force, hiring triads to attack citizens, blinding journalist with rubber bullets, shooting live ammo at students in the chest,

"triads"? "fake news" much?

What else from this list is anything but a response to protester violence? Or do you think the policy should just stand still and take the beating?

> To an individualist,

Keep throwing labels around all you want, it doesn't make you right.

Your freedom to shine your laser light ends where another person's eyes begin.

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throwaway_bad6y ago

I am not immune to fake news. I think that's why I appreciated your original response so much. I wanted to see how others are interpreting the same events.

Human rights violation by china are well documented. You can look them up yourself assuming you have access to an uncensored internet. I cited disappearing people as the example that I thought was most relevant for the extradition bill.

The triad attacks are definitely real (we are in the age of smartphones after all): https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-49071502

I don't think you realize how much the difference in cultural values is making it hard for us to communicate here. Westerners consider what you call "violence and destruction" to be a fair price to pay to have rights guaranteed. Fighting is necessarily ugly but shining laser in eyes is laughably tamed compared to the lengths democratic societies have historically gone to protect their freedoms.

I do understand that some people just want to go on with their daily lives and ignore the atrocities going on in the background as long as it doesn't happen to them. I am not even arguing that's necessarily wrong either, just very different from western thought.

UIZealotOP6y ago

Likewise, I appreciate your honesty and candor.

> Human rights violation by china are well documented.

That may have been the case. But we are talking about human rights violations by the Hong Kong government here, and I don't think you have a case here.

> The triad attacks are definitely real

We can certainly demand an independent investigation into this once the violence and destruction stops.

> Westerners consider what you call "violence and destruction" to be a fair price to pay to have rights guaranteed.

I believe the bill was quickly suspended after initial peaceful protests. There's no reason to believe the bill wouldn't be withdrawn if peaceful protests persisted. That's why I believe the violence has been unnecessary and may have even been harmful to the cause.

FWIW, I oppose the bill and support the peaceful protests against the bill.

> shining laser in eyes is laughably tamed

Have you tried that on yourself? Maybe you'll have more empathy for the policy if you had. It looks deceptively benign but is in fact incredibly aggressive.

> I do understand that some people just want to go on with their daily lives ... just very different from western thought.

I doubt it's very different in the west.

mercutio26y ago

A few points:

A) It’s very difficult to distinguish false-flag violence from hooligans

B) Once violence starts, it’s hard to stop it, but that doesn’t mean that the government should automatically get its way because a small minority of hooligans/false flag operatives got involved

C) Protesting for universal suffrage from an uncontrolled slate of candidates seems eminently reasonable from a western perspective; what do you think is bad about this?

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