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0 pointsTylerE6y ago0 comments

I don't think there is any sort of long-term future in anything "Python". I think a successful modern language has to have the potential for efficient concurrency baked in, which isn't really possible without breaking compatibility, and the Python community would never survive another round like the 2->3 transition. (And I'm not convinced the community really survived that one either, given the amount of ongoing bitterness about the whole situation).

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coldtea6y ago

Err, did you notice that Python is in the top 3 language in TIOBE (up from 4), and named "Language of the year"?

What bizarro bubble do you live in?

timothycrosley6y ago

Python is very healthy at the moment, and still growing! However, I think that makes it even more important as a community that we don't rest on our laurels and we fix the issues we do have. CPU concurrency is definitely one of those issues.

guggle6y ago

> CPU concurrency is definitely one of those issues.

Yes, and each new version actually adresses that, one step at a time. (see https://bugs.python.org/issue35813 for example).

TylerEOP6y ago

Indicators like TIOBE are VERY lagging. Like 5-10 years

coldtea6y ago

In my assessment, not really. They are surprisingly spot on (for the top spots and singling out contenders).

Not to mention the language landscape is almost static at the top. Nobody's gonna came and take Python, Java, C, C++, JS, out in the next 10-15 years...

Only a huge self-blunder, like the Perl 5 -> 6 transition, and only at much more volatile time (when paradigms change, e.g. when web dev changed from CGI, Perl 5 had already lost the web framework scene to PHP, Rails, Django and the like even before losing its main niche back then - admin work) can do any serious damage to a top language...

Anyway, let's check in 5 years...

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timothycrosley6y ago

> I think a successful modern language has to have the potential for efficient concurrency baked in

I agree with this!

> I don't think there is any sort of long-term future in anything "Python".

I disagree with this :)

I think Python has efficient IO concurrency built-in already with async, and I feel it is likely that it finds a way to work out CPU bound concurrency long-term, as projects like sub-shells with channel communication demonstrate.

nine_k6y ago

Efficient CPU concurrency needs either fine-grained locking (and removal of GIL), or data immutability.

Both seem rather hard to implement.

I predict that for CPU-intensive tasks, you'll keep using extensions in native code (like numpy or pytorch), or keep passing serialized objects through queues in multiprocessing setups.

qaq6y ago

https://github.com/jreese/aiomultiprocess The above is suffecient at FB scale for fairly intensive processing. Python is also sufficient for running quite a good bit of Instagram. I know some startups like to deploy over-engineered solutions but in reality Python is sufficient in many use-cases. You can always drop down to Cython if you have some hot path you need to optimize. (or Rust).

dmix6y ago

Data science/AI people breathed a whole lot of life into Python. I'm curious where it would be if they had went elsewhere.

edraferi6y ago

R for the ecosystem, Julia for the performance & future proofing.

coldtea6y ago

What "future proofing"? It's not like Julia is "the future" it's just a contended, and it's not doing that good at that either...

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coldtea6y ago

Err, did you notice that Python is in the top 3 language in TIOBE (up from 4), and named "Language of the year"?

What bizarro bubble do you live in?

timothycrosley6y ago

guggle6y ago

> CPU concurrency is definitely one of those issues.

Yes, and each new version actually adresses that, one step at a time. (see https://bugs.python.org/issue35813 for example).

TylerEOP6y ago

Indicators like TIOBE are VERY lagging. Like 5-10 years

coldtea6y ago

In my assessment, not really. They are surprisingly spot on (for the top spots and singling out contenders).

Not to mention the language landscape is almost static at the top. Nobody's gonna came and take Python, Java, C, C++, JS, out in the next 10-15 years...

Anyway, let's check in 5 years...

1 more reply

timothycrosley6y ago

> I think a successful modern language has to have the potential for efficient concurrency baked in

I agree with this!

> I don't think there is any sort of long-term future in anything "Python".

I disagree with this :)

nine_k6y ago

Efficient CPU concurrency needs either fine-grained locking (and removal of GIL), or data immutability.

Both seem rather hard to implement.

I predict that for CPU-intensive tasks, you'll keep using extensions in native code (like numpy or pytorch), or keep passing serialized objects through queues in multiprocessing setups.

qaq6y ago

dmix6y ago

Data science/AI people breathed a whole lot of life into Python. I'm curious where it would be if they had went elsewhere.

edraferi6y ago

R for the ecosystem, Julia for the performance & future proofing.

coldtea6y ago

What "future proofing"? It's not like Julia is "the future" it's just a contended, and it's not doing that good at that either...

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse