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0 pointsweberc26y ago0 comments

Go has those features in the reflect package (so as far as I know, Go is just as powerful as Python), but you’re right that they aren’t easy to use. If you do use them, it’s quite clear, and will be addressed in code review so you don’t have nearly as many dynamic typing bugs as Python—it’s not anywhere close.

Very dynamic code shouldn’t be easy; the happy path should encourage clear, simple code. By encouraging people to stay on the happy path, their code is more performant, maintainable, etc and it keeps the average code quality quite high across the ecosystem.

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qtplatypus6y ago

It is rare that I have had problems with dynamic typing errors in P* languages. I am of the view that that dynamic code should be one of two things.

1) Super easy. That way doing it right is trivial. 2) Impossiblely difficult so the only people who are doing it can be trusted to do it right.

To me go falls between those two. It’s real easy to say interface{} (indeed it is more difficult to make a non empty interface) but doing it in a way that is safe isn’t easy.

I don’t think expressive power is the point here. As they are both compleate languages. More it is an issue of what trade offs and comprises have been made.

weberc2OP6y ago

I'm not sure (1) exists, probably by definition. And I certainly don't agree that Python makes it easy to "do it correctly". Our Python app has daily 500s due to typing errors. We also suffered for years because we would build magical things that we thought would work in every scenario but ended up being untestable and/or failed to consider numerous edge cases ("what happens if someone inherits from my magical class?") and/or which failed to extend properly ("oops, someone renamed this attribute and now all of our hasattr checks are broken, and the tests didn't catch it because they passed mocks"). Eventually we built a culture that mostly discourages magic/gratuitous dynamism, but it took years and we're still suffering from that legacy code.

These problems simply don't crop up in Go, or at least they're in a different ballpark in terms of frequency and severity. So yeah, Go lacks typesafe generics, but I'll make that tradeoff all day every day in exchange for the maintainability, performance, tooling, distribution, etc improvements that Go offers today. No contest.

qtplatypus6y ago

It seems that we have different experiences with regards to typing errors. Perhaps due to different practices, coding styles and problem domain.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointsweberc26y ago0 comments

0 comments

qtplatypus6y ago

It is rare that I have had problems with dynamic typing errors in P* languages. I am of the view that that dynamic code should be one of two things.

1) Super easy. That way doing it right is trivial. 2) Impossiblely difficult so the only people who are doing it can be trusted to do it right.

To me go falls between those two. It’s real easy to say interface{} (indeed it is more difficult to make a non empty interface) but doing it in a way that is safe isn’t easy.

I don’t think expressive power is the point here. As they are both compleate languages. More it is an issue of what trade offs and comprises have been made.

weberc2OP6y ago

qtplatypus6y ago

It seems that we have different experiences with regards to typing errors. Perhaps due to different practices, coding styles and problem domain.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse