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0 pointsnilkn6y ago0 comments

I'm not sure if you're actually disagreeing with me. Of course a team needs a technical lead who is likely a senior engineer. I think that much is obvious. However, that person is predominantly concerned with their own team's technology.

As an engineering director, I have an entire organization of teams I'm personally accountable for, and I have to make sure the work that's being planned out meshes well with what all the other teams are also planning. I cannot constantly be pulling in a dozen senior developers into every meeting every day to help me figure things out. I also have my own technical objectives I want to achieve for the company that cut across multiple teams or the entire engineering organization. Most of these considerations are technical in nature, and while a senior IC on one team can help they frankly don't have time to be involved in the whole process -- that would prevent them from succeeding as a senior engineer in their current role.

Under discussion is not the role of a senior engineer, but rather the technical track beyond that point -- roles commonly termed staff, senior staff, distinguished, principal, fellow, or even senior fellow. My core claim is there's more in common between engineering management and these roles than many folks tend to believe and/or realize.

Often an engineering manager is just someone at this level of seniority who also has rock-solid people skills and has been empowered in the organization to actually get bigger things done that cut across teams, though they may not themselves write code anymore.

Certainly I agree with you that not every manager needs to be deeply technical, but I think that for someone who is deeply technical, engineering management can actually be a much more powerful and interesting choice vs. trying to expand your impact without taking on formal leadership responsibility on an IC track.

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tytso6y ago

The primary disconnect on this larger thread is a disagreement about terms. Does an "IC" mean someone who doesn't have any direct reports? What does it mean to be an "engineering manager"? Are staff, senior staff, distinguished engineers, et. al, without any direct reports part of "engineering management"?

The other big disconnect is in the size of companies in question. At the larger companies, you can have a clear separation of roles, so that some people are almost exclusively managing resources, and trying to match resourcing to business objectives, while other people are much more exclusively focusing on technical issues and how they can achieve business objectives by making the right technical decisions.

In these larger companies, the issue of people on "The Technical Track" not having the "muscle" of people in management is really not true, or at least, heavily over-simplified. (And this is another definitions question; at IBM and Google, Staff, Senior Staff, Principal, DE, Fellow, etc., were all considered as on the Technical track and were considered very senior engineers. Yes, they generally aren't coding much by the time they hit that level; although you might be surprised how much Fellows are still coding.)

kevan6y ago

>>>> ...vs. trying to expand your impact without taking on formal leadership responsibility on an IC track.

This might come down to cultural differences between companies. At Amazon leadership responsibility is formally baked into the upper SDE roles (Sr and above), literally in the role descriptions. There's definitely still value in being a technical manager, but that's not the only way to get formal leadership responsibility.

pm906y ago

Apologies. I see the point you're trying to make, and I agree with you.

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