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0 pointsmcny6y ago0 comments

> Personally, I have found remote development awesome because it enables engineers to start contributing to a huge product in the very first hour. No need to wait for the repository to clone, the dependencies to install, and the code to build before you can become productive.

I am nobody but I've had this nagging feeling ever since I started working on websites for big corporations about why can't I work on my code on my local machine with no network connectivity? Why do I need to talk to three different databases and two different services on five different servers? Why can't I just fake all those things during my development?

If anything, my not so humble opinion is that remote development further enables bad habits. Of course, remote development is a tool and is not to blame but I recently learned the term "hermetic" build [Google SRE]

>The build process is self-contained and must not rely on services that are external to the build environment.

Personally, I think we should work towards making it possible to run (or at least stub) the whole stack on a single physical machine - be it local or remote. What do you think? I think this is a trivial problem engineering-wise but I am not very good at selling ideas.

[Google SRE] https://landing.google.com/sre/sre-book/chapters/release-eng...

0 comments

arkh6y ago

> Why can't I just fake all those things during my development?

Wiremock but it takes some work. I wish public API providers also provided Mock servers for developers.

shaklee36y ago

Outside of web development, sometimes you need special hardware or workspaces configured to do development. Usually this can be done in a container, but that comes with its own annoyances. Having a central development server for large compiled code bases is really useful.

8ytecoder6y ago

Not true. Worked on a real distributed payment system. Every service came with a mock clone or a single server mode to standup all services in the same box. Every developer had a powerful personal desktop (or two). I loved it. Everyone I knew there loved it.

shaklee36y ago

See comment below. Just because it wasn't true for you, doesn't mean it's not true. I'm not talking about mocking services to run it; I'm talking about the development environment and sharing with a team of 20 or so on a code base that takes 45 minutes to compile without parallelizing the build. You also cannot mock GPU functions. There's simply no cuda emulator.

pmontra6y ago

This is an ideal case and I wish it's like this for everybody. At least one of the payment providers I'm working with in a customer's project doesn't even have a sandbox. We must test with real money. Obviously we mock everything in unit and integration tests, but to know that it really works the customer must put money on the manual testing account.

lugg6y ago

Those are all valid trade offs, but its ignoring the issue raised in the AP.

Like, is an environment like this encouraging bad habbits?

But anyway..

Special hardware: such as? Very few systems can't be downscaled. Situations where you need this special hardware we are talking horizontal multi server setups anyway.

Special workspaces: be less special, improve tooling, improve build operations. Very few setups actually needs centralised configuration.

Large compilations: I'm not sold that a) there is many people with the justifiable need, and b) any real justifiable need is likely going to want on demand autoscaling of the compilation servers, i.e. development won't be local anyway.

I'm not trying to debunk everything you've said. It's a trade off and I've used central dev databases in the past for legacy systems and it worked well for those in the office.

All I can tell you is that iteration speed, testability of code, manual testing and all around team morale was DRASTICALLY improved by stubbing out that bottleneck in newer systems.

shaklee36y ago

I'm speaking for my individual case and others I work with where we have codebases of over a million lines of c++, with many header-only libraries. On an 80-core server make -j can still take 3-4 minutes, and that uses all the resources on the machine. Trust me, I wish I could have something as fast that's not centralized. The closest I can think of is either a VM (slow/wasteful), or a container. The container would be really easy if everyone used vscode with the container development plugin, but not everyone on the team does.

For those that don't, it's much more friction to remember to start it up, etc.

IggleSniggle6y ago

Absolutely agree! If it's any consolation, there are teams that make this possible in a "big corporation" context.

chrisweekly6y ago

tangent to your points: you are not "nobody"!

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointsmcny6y ago0 comments

>The build process is self-contained and must not rely on services that are external to the build environment.

[Google SRE] https://landing.google.com/sre/sre-book/chapters/release-eng...

0 comments

arkh6y ago

> Why can't I just fake all those things during my development?

Wiremock but it takes some work. I wish public API providers also provided Mock servers for developers.

shaklee36y ago

8ytecoder6y ago

shaklee36y ago

pmontra6y ago

lugg6y ago

Those are all valid trade offs, but its ignoring the issue raised in the AP.

Like, is an environment like this encouraging bad habbits?

But anyway..

Special hardware: such as? Very few systems can't be downscaled. Situations where you need this special hardware we are talking horizontal multi server setups anyway.

Special workspaces: be less special, improve tooling, improve build operations. Very few setups actually needs centralised configuration.

I'm not trying to debunk everything you've said. It's a trade off and I've used central dev databases in the past for legacy systems and it worked well for those in the office.

All I can tell you is that iteration speed, testability of code, manual testing and all around team morale was DRASTICALLY improved by stubbing out that bottleneck in newer systems.

shaklee36y ago

For those that don't, it's much more friction to remember to start it up, etc.

IggleSniggle6y ago

Absolutely agree! If it's any consolation, there are teams that make this possible in a "big corporation" context.

chrisweekly6y ago

tangent to your points: you are not "nobody"!

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse