Microsoft is retiring its MCSA, MCSD and MCSE certifications (opens in new tab)

I both agree and disagree with your post... Mainly because it just a big long False dilemma where you put General knowledge over specific knowledge believing that one has to choose

I think people should have a good conceptual knowledge, a base line of general knowledge of technology, that however does not preclude one from gaining vendor specific knowledge.

Your coming at this from a development standpoint, I am coming from ops but if I have legacy environment critical to my business I need people that are experts in that environment. You may have all the best "general theory" around how Virtual Machines work, how iscsi works, etc but if I have an error on VMWare ESXI that causes production lose I need a person that has DEEP understanding of VMWare not someone that understand the theory of things as I do not have time for you to open a ticket to get vendor support, I need it fixed now not 5 hours from now after vmware blames the storage vendor and the storage vendor blames vmware

Considering most Microsoft Windows Server features covered have been around since Windows XP, I’d argue most Windows certs meet your criteria.

I’d call my Cisco certs, combined with the community college courses that aligned with them, the most effective education process in my life. It directly impacted my job, immediately. Even aside from the fact that in the MSP business, certs are super marketable.

Lol. Yeap, that's about it. Most certs are mostly a scam to let non-technical hiring managers and HR people give themselves some virtue-signaling brownie points.

I was an AWS Sr. Systems Engineer consultant with a preferred vendor working on-prem for Fortune 200's. No certifications other than a BS CS/EE, was an undergrad (unusual) security researcher at a top lab, VMware and the intro MCSA exam; but no A+, CCIE, ITIL, PMP and no MCSE.

One of the top *nix/Windows sr. sysadmins for the US MIL's DMDC has only VMware certs.

Security researchers and offensive security folks: few, if any, certs beyond (usually) university.

> If I'm looking at learning something, my criteria is "will this information still be relevant 10 years from now?"

I don't know, in the tech world there is a ton of stuff with a lifespan shorter than 10 years, but you still often need to learn it.

I mean, I get the point of your post, and I agree having general knowledge is a critical starting point, but at the end of the day you often need to actually put hands to keyboard to get something specific done. For example, it's important to know generic programming concepts, but as someone who switched to the Node world from Java a couple years ago there was a ton of new stuff I had to learn: How Node's threading model worked, the details of the event loop, how Promises and async/await worked, the specifics of Javascript's prototype inheritance model, etc. It took me a long time to feel like I was as proficient in Node as I had been in Java because so many of the critical details are so different.

In the 90s I was in the vanguard of “paper” MCSEs - I knew this computer networking stuff was interesting, but had no idea where to start. Back then, the core exams were all NT 4.0 related, which clearly is mostly irrelevant now, but the electives, Networking Essentials and TCP/IP are still rather relevant. The certs were good in that they tried to make sure you knew the basics of everything, and there were lots of electives to choose from (such as IE 4 Administration, which I passed, lol). In the end, I think that I agree with you that these certs have little value once your career is established (I skipped Win2k certs, and didn’t get a ton of new knowledge studying for my Win2k3 certs, which were my last). The real crying shame is all of the latchers-on who pushed these certs as effectively a get rich quick scheme. I wonder if MS is getting out of this cert biz to get away from that as much as anything.

> "will this information still be relevant 10 years from now?" This is so true. It basically applies to every single learning resource that is out there, especially good books that withstand over time. I always found certifications a waste of money and in a way I'd glad if all of this IT certification industry disapears for good.

I think there is some value in certifications as a way of teaching unusual corner cases you might not otherwise come across.

I only have one cert - the Sun Certified Java Programmer, from back in the day when Sun still existed - and i can say it encouraged me to dive deeper into the quirks of the language. For sure, reading Effective Java gets you more bang for the buck in becoming a great Java developer, and stuff like Clean Code probably helps more with learning how to build maintainable apps, but i still feel like the SCJP was worth my time to do.

The thing i found about doing the SCJP is that it increased my curiosity around programming languages in general. Those contrived "gotcha" questions on visibility, inheritance etc made me think more deeply about how to design code in a readable and safe way - not just in Java but in other languages too.

You have to get the job first.

And being in the tech field for decades (which I have) is all about pivoting from one flavor of the month to the next.

Are you hiring software engineers, or desktop support IT people, or what?

I don't think an MCSE tells you much about hiring someone to do work that is mostly about learning and creating - software engineering, network architects, infrastructure admins, etc. But i can imagine it being useful if you're hiring someone for a position that is more about routine problems and customer service - IT support, cabling, audio-visual, etc.

I should add that i don't mean this as a slight on our comrades in first-line support. They are a vital and valued part of the IT community!

I call these McQualifications.

They're a negative signal when I see them in a CV.

Virtually all certification schemes are a scam with extra steps. Candidates who don't see the scam for what it is, are bottom of the barrel. Likewise employers who bought into the scam are bottom of the barrel.

Interesting, because as I mention in another thread they are an hiring requirement for the Cisco, SAP, Adobe, Oracle... consulting partners.

That depends, there is absolute a place for Vendor Certifications. There should also be general and non-vendor certifications.

I dont believe MS doing away with all OnPrem Certifications is "for the best"

Nearly all colleges are not locked to a single vendor - CompTIA, Cisco, EC-Counsil, LPI, Red Hat, etc. are taught equally. The point I was hoping to convey earlier was that Microsoft is now going to disappear from that vendor and organization list.

Azure AD may be a decent solution if you have people doing Office and other work all day long, not when you have manufacturing plants across the world in places with poor Internet connections, SCADA and continuity plans that don't involve reliable Internet. If you need that, the complexity of having on premise AD and Azure AD is just cost with no benefits.

Please let me make the connection from active directory wan replication, as far as what I believe is the objective of ramping up the azure ad services capability and capacity: making a global computing grid with current and next generation Xbox consoles. This isn't a polished presentation, I'm genuinely sorry I can't manage better, but this is a proper long line strategy. (Also you could imagine a phone product fitting into this end scenario, at least I can)

I suspect that pushing the world off local machines and licenses is not a bad thing for the security of systems generally.

But consider the flatness of the stock during Ballmer's tenure.

By literally cutting the supply of people who can maintain off net machines, Nadella is pushing the license revolution about the hardest he can.

I hold two not necessarily complimentary theories about the stock under SB: flat stock suits a relentless acquirer such as SB, who iirc became the largest non founder shareholder by committing his net worth to his employer stock and sticking to this policy in every remuneration review. I believe SB laid some of the best foundations for growth to ever be implemented by any internally promoted business leader in a direct majority positive personal wealth correlation position at the time of appointment. Many CEOs have become one to one linked to their employer success but only after options awards and bonus schemes created that equity correlation. Ballmer was all in. I beseech you especially if you're not favourable to the man by reputation, to look at SB more closely. I experienced a Damascene conversation and subsequently I discovered I admire Ballmer's dedication and principles as much as they surely desperately needed smoothing with greater sensitivity to the constituencies that are the still neglected bedrock of economic and technological capability and development in America (much less so in Europe unfortunately) because we just can't respond to any proverbial chair throwing, it's not in the geek career handbook, sorry Steve, but I at least know that you truly tried and can guess how much it means to you still. ---- Equally Ballmer could have suppressed the stock by his relentless investment in long term economic growth. Windows Mobile is the best known calamity. Not necessarily for the mobile ecosystem, but for the social and political relationships that ownership of Nokia could have created. Such transatlantic opportunities are not necessarily seen in every generation.

I think Ballmer takes credit but SN was the trigger puller on the XboxOneX architecture that enticed Dave Cutler from retirement to bootstrap W10 on the 1X. This puts workstation class 3D hardware in homes for under three hundred dollars, last offers I saw. The next model is even more attractive. But at launch the 1X was almost five times the component value and packaged how very few are capable of producing. Powerful workstations in ubiquitous distribution is a stepping stone to the next technological transformation in this lifetime I hope to see and even participate in.

Can you now appreciate why I've digressed so much?

Hundreds of millions of workstation class consoles presents the most important network and remote tenant support challenge that I think I will see in my life.

If by reaping the financial benefits of pushing sites to cloud and subscriptions, Nadella can afford to extend Intune to domestic demand on the scale of the consoles market, the hardware will support a new era of possibilities. I certainly didn't think the adapter for the Xbox to use the switches and controls you bring, was by any means facing only the challenges of physical disability. I have forever since been thinking about my garage door opener being replaced with a simple relay and I have sufficient trust in my wan access to my console to be completely comfortable with this. (Plus of course further security doors before you enter our home)

How do you prefer to heat your home? I prefer to be paid for running azure jobs that are modelling for local transport conditions and micro climate forecasts. Rackfill not landfill, is the future for hardware my company hopes to speed into reality. Miniaturisation is plenty for the data created by our lives exception being sensor data and video capture of later value in review. But I expect to see de duplication of scenery behind multiple channels of capturing cameras, after dimensional data extraction, which is easy to control the storage facility for, over neighbourhood 5G networks (see STH for latest Celeron 5G targeted chips, the most interesting news I'm surprised HN hasn't leaped upon) for simultaneous multi deca gigabit ptp mimo is upon us probably before a full traditional interval technological generation (I think the important tech generation interval is halved and halved again in the last decade alone and therefore I believe that Moore's Law is now manifest in the periodicity of development having become challenged by other limits nevertheless the technology advances just not by virtue of inherent value or capability but external factors. If Moore's Law can be restated to apply for the interval of development continuing the capability exponential growth, please allow the currying to be noted as Kirby's Second Law, my first being explaining is losing, a admonishment probably rather than immutable law but it is very hard to find ways it is inapplicable. Hence my second law could be written, laws return in guise too thin to deceive but too importantly to be obvious (we are too preoccupied with the effect of force unknown ") I had better write that much better.. please please don't take me too seriously in fact please don't take me seriously in the first place, as Feynman offered the seeker of physics profundity his advice "physics doesn't matter, love does" I'm ashamed every time I consume my listeners attention without being able to make some token of value beyond the time taken. Time is beyond the gift of the gods. Its waste is in this incredible epoch I believe is the only crime that is important to punish with meaningful actions.

They're turning our dens into the next generation datacenter and personally I won't be happy until our furnace is substituted for radiators that are heat sinks / backplanes for the various 1U * servers I'd like instead of overpriced home automation systems and poor entertainment hardware that is bettered by miles for much less by actual professional production gear and this is how I dream we're going to be able to heat the homes of our elderly people who not too long hence will count among their number this comment author or rather my wife and my ashes after I expire from shock at human kind managing a drinking session in a brewery. But I have hope, sure and certain hope, as my faith's liturgy inters it's believers...(I think of religion like a lost advanced technology that has become entirely misunderstood and its uses forgotten or even despised because maybe like LISP having faith in our fellow humanity is plain hard and involves too many macros. But that's the kit of my digression into that subject, I am merely so deeply worried about global events that I fear a retrograde to exactly what of theology is most abhorrent and destructive though ephemerally consoling. This race of man needs to work afresh to understand anew everything, I believe, and I already think I'm seeing the failures of modern civilisation caused by the passing of the last generation who learned the hardest way to work first towards better life for all and trust that wealth will subsequently follow, instead we're almost entirely product now of gaming the edge cases of capitalism which cases should instead be solved to enable the future to be built)

(preferably the open computing rack spec or maybe something entirely different and more suitably designed. This area is ripe for patents and I'm looking for like minds to establish some prior art in anticipation of bad actors especially the mostly unprofitable energy utilities, and I've legal and development budget carved out of my savings to do so on my hunch I can reasonably ask to be made whole if the product is useful)

* slightly involved investigation showed me I can assemble the most excellent home theater system from pro equipment for plenty less than close to the higher end of consumer systems, while giving my family the facility almost every way equal to a professional post production studio. This isn't Lutron. Lutron don't sell DANTE routing/ volume controls and switching with display to fit into our light switch soffets. But Teac do for a modest sum. DANTE is the most advanced pro audio live audio interface over Ethernet so we'll be able to connect our daughters keyboard music workstation to the DAC in our den, which can record 32 channels of 5Mhz sample sound to SD card, or have a computer patched in by a inexpensive Yamaha PCIe (v4!) card capable of incredible wonders and software process for Dolby and Auro3D (a lesser known but arguably far better surround format originally adopted by Skywalker and big studios and now part of the IMAX 8K spec. This is software processing and we can record as easily as play. We aimed to beat a dealerships quote for a "safely not high end but show off what's possible today not tomorrow please " setup and managed by a pleasant amount.

.... all I have written looks like prime Azure/IoT candidate income sources to my vision of the not distant future. Of course Microsoft is bold. How can you be anything but hold at trillion dollars scales? How can you move the needle unless you're playing with a big stack? I amuse myself with thoughts about splitting Microsoft's businesses now and separating cloud from on premises lines. This makes sense to me as a business decision that would help the company to thrive whilst enabling the less connected economic world to access software systems that aren't subsidies for the cloud computing competition. I think Azure is a better standalone business than integrated. This may require a long term investment from shareholders. But our 401ks need genuine growth stocks. The legacy business will serve the world being served by the Melinda and Bill Gates Foundation today. That's a sympathy for the good in every way possible that I've thought about it. I would separate the IP and patent portfolio into a trust in recognition of Microsoft business in the OSS world which needs assurance and support but by separating the on premise Microsoft from Azure, the on prem Microsoft can now compete with open source alternatives. Equally this is the open source movements greatest opportunity for all time. Who cares about the Year Of Desktop Linux if Microsoft is abandoning the desktop? We won already. So did Microsoft. Pooh, capitalism is about growing pies for real? Hand me my defibrillator!

Yep, GP rant is middle-brow dismissal.

> Administrators are typically farther along than associates I would think.

I just never heard "associate" used in reference to a title on anything related to informatics.