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0 pointsceejayoz6y ago0 comments

Washington state just seized a restock from a Target in Seattle.

https://twitter.com/GovInslee/status/1241505423259099136

0 comments

I really want to hear the back story on this. Who is the distributor? Why did they end up at a Target? I'm betting the distributor tried to sell them to hospitals but the hospitals said they weren't appropriate/certified for medical use so couldn't take them? Not much to go on from a tweet but definitely needs investigating.

SpicyLemonZest6y ago

The respirators in question have exhalation valves[1], so they definitely wouldn't be normally certified for medical use.

[1] https://twitter.com/anndornfeld/status/1241372544764006400/p...

kps6y ago

Looked this up…

“Respirators with exhalation valves can be used in a healthcare setting when it is not important to maintain a sterile field (an example of an acceptable practice would be when taking the temperature or blood pressure of a patient). Respirators with exhalation valves should not be used in situations where a sterile field is required (e.g., during an invasive procedure in an operating or procedure room) because the exhalation valve allows unfiltered exhaled air to escape into the sterile field.”

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part...

1 more reply

oasisbob6y ago

That's a good point.

Guessing the fix is to tape over the port?

porknubbins6y ago

There’s this idea thats not even close to correct that we as a country have somehow tracked and accounted for all masks. Someone sent me some N-95 masks like around 9 days ago (which I didn’t ask for) which they got from industrial suppliers. This is a coordination and information problem not a capacity issue so I expect to see more like this.

oasisbob6y ago

Target donated them. Not seized, nor sold.

https://twitter.com/Target/status/1241507826096377858?s=20

whatshisface6y ago

The message to commercial entities is clear: don't bother responding.

simonh6y ago

I'd say it's "don't be assholes".

ceejayozOP6y ago

If you're gonna respond by selling N95s to consumers right now, instead of to hospitals, then I'd rather you didn't bother responding.

catalogia6y ago

More masks is better than fewer masks, even if they are distributed sub-optimaly.

1 more reply

ISL6y ago

It is not clear from the post whether they were seized or purchased by the state. There are (comparatively) plenty of financial resources around, just not a lot of masks.

bdavis__6y ago

they were purchased. the government does not just take property. in the end it may be the GSA price, which may not be the same as target was expecting to retail it at.

ceejayozOP6y ago

> the government does not just take property

lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_forfeiture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U...

1 more reply

tathougies6y ago

I hope by seized e means try bought them at market price.

While supportive of strict social distancing measures I do not think any governor or president can suddenly start tossing basic civil rights. The rise of authoritarian language from state leaders is very concerning

MiroF6y ago

It should be seized and compensated with eminent domain.

Buying implies right of refusal and no, I don't think that Target should be able to stockpile N95 masks in its warehouses.

tathougies6y ago

Sure. Being compensated still means they were bought. Compelled to sell is fine as an emergency police power and is fine. Being seized is a violation of the amendment against involuntary seizure without due process of law.

ceejayozOP6y ago

I suspect this was voluntary, but governors and the President have a lot of extra powers once an emergency is formally declared. (Which it has.)

For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Production_Act_of_1950

tathougies6y ago

Yes they have the power to compel a sale but the government has to pay. And the defense production act is not relevant to governors. Governors have sovereign executive power in their state including ordinary police power. The federal government does not ordinarily have that power which is why they need an act of congress.

takeda6y ago

And they still didn't invoke it, but instead asking for this https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/doj-susp...

1 more reply

takeda6y ago

Doesn't change the fact that they are trying: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/doj-susp...

That makes it extra scary.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

erentz6y ago

SpicyLemonZest6y ago

The respirators in question have exhalation valves[1], so they definitely wouldn't be normally certified for medical use.

[1] https://twitter.com/anndornfeld/status/1241372544764006400/p...

kps6y ago

Looked this up…

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part...

1 more reply

oasisbob6y ago

That's a good point.

Guessing the fix is to tape over the port?

porknubbins6y ago

oasisbob6y ago

Target donated them. Not seized, nor sold.

https://twitter.com/Target/status/1241507826096377858?s=20

whatshisface6y ago

The message to commercial entities is clear: don't bother responding.

simonh6y ago

I'd say it's "don't be assholes".

ceejayozOP6y ago

If you're gonna respond by selling N95s to consumers right now, instead of to hospitals, then I'd rather you didn't bother responding.

catalogia6y ago

More masks is better than fewer masks, even if they are distributed sub-optimaly.

1 more reply

ISL6y ago

It is not clear from the post whether they were seized or purchased by the state. There are (comparatively) plenty of financial resources around, just not a lot of masks.

bdavis__6y ago

they were purchased. the government does not just take property. in the end it may be the GSA price, which may not be the same as target was expecting to retail it at.

ceejayozOP6y ago

> the government does not just take property

lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_forfeiture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U...

1 more reply

tathougies6y ago

I hope by seized e means try bought them at market price.

MiroF6y ago

It should be seized and compensated with eminent domain.

Buying implies right of refusal and no, I don't think that Target should be able to stockpile N95 masks in its warehouses.

tathougies6y ago

ceejayozOP6y ago

I suspect this was voluntary, but governors and the President have a lot of extra powers once an emergency is formally declared. (Which it has.)

For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Production_Act_of_1950

tathougies6y ago

takeda6y ago

And they still didn't invoke it, but instead asking for this https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/doj-susp...

1 more reply

takeda6y ago

Doesn't change the fact that they are trying: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/doj-susp...

That makes it extra scary.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse