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0 pointsPierredeFermat5y ago0 comments

I don't see the problem with taking stances. The very act of thinking about such thing is a stance by itself.

You can simply take stances that would reduce harm, avoid collapse and (optionally) maximize benefit for everyone. The current stance of WHO doesn't seem to be in that realm and something could/should be done about it.

There's no action without a stance.

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MiddTech5y ago

I'm not arguing that taking a stance is bad per se, i'm arguing that almost anything you might want to take a stance on is subjective.

As an example: Reduce harm: depends on perspective (define harm?), timeframe, priorities. Avoid collapse of what?, current society? which one? all of them ? Maximise benefit is the same as reduce harm in its subjectiveness and "everyone" is a big ask given that some perspectives on certain points are potentially mutually exclusive.

A somewhat topical example would be:

"Let everyone get covid-19 by not imposing measures designed to stop the spread, that way the stock market takes less of a plunge because [Insert economic reasons here]" vs "Impose measures to follow the model that most analysis(from current data) agrees will minimise the loss of life, at the cost of the stock market taking a hit"

How do you maximise benefit for both parties in that case? only impose half off the measures? who decides what is the fair middle ground ?

PierredeFermatOP5y ago

I think you already pushed the scenario too far. The best measure to the example you gave is clearly the one we arrived at now. Complete lockdown. Worldwide. There's no discussion about its subjectivity. But the original point/motivation was to avoid getting here in the first place: identify and report potential breakouts early enough. The WHO was too late on this because of the way it's set up and that contributed to getting us to the extreme example you mentioned.

As for subjectivity per se, that's a separate philosophical discussion to me and doesn't have to do much with epidemics. The initital proposition was simple but the discussion drifted (as expected); let's find a better and faster way to prevent outbreaks altogether. There can be no subjectivity/relativity about this - it's a universal imperative.

MiddTech5y ago

I agree with you on that first part , it was a contrived example to illustrate the point, but in practical terms, not so helpful.

I also agree with subjectivity as being it's own interesting topic of conversation.

Universal imperitive to prevent outbreaks having no possible subjectivity though? that's just bait.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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MiddTech5y ago

I'm not arguing that taking a stance is bad per se, i'm arguing that almost anything you might want to take a stance on is subjective.

A somewhat topical example would be:

How do you maximise benefit for both parties in that case? only impose half off the measures? who decides what is the fair middle ground ?

PierredeFermatOP5y ago

MiddTech5y ago

I agree with you on that first part , it was a contrived example to illustrate the point, but in practical terms, not so helpful.

I also agree with subjectivity as being it's own interesting topic of conversation.

Universal imperitive to prevent outbreaks having no possible subjectivity though? that's just bait.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse