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0 pointsryandvm5y ago0 comments

> Because it gives techies the *nix environment they want, with the software and hardware support no one will give them on Linux.

The UNIX experience on the Mac is pretty shitty. Ancient versions of all the tooling. Command-line utils have that weird BSD well-water flavor. No package management. Funny Docker quirks.

The hardware used to be pretty nice, but honestly I'm still having trouble forgiving them for getting rid of the physical ESC key and turning volume control into a two-step routine on the TouchBar.

Honestly if I'm doing server-side development, I much prefer using my ThinkPad (Ubuntu) over my MacBook. About the only thing I miss is the far superior touchpad on the Macbook. That's it.

0 comments

selsta5y ago

> Ancient versions of all the tooling. Command-line utils have that weird BSD well-water flavor. No package management.

Can be easily fixed by installing homebrew. Also you claim it is a shitty Unix experience while complaining about BSD flavoured tools.

> Funny Docker quirks.

How is that Unix related? BSD has similar issues.

Maybe you should have written the GNU/Linux experience is pretty shitty on macOS but no one claimed otherwise.

mbreese5y ago

>> Because it gives techies the nix environment they want, with the software and hardware support no one will give them on Linux.
> The UNIX experience on the Mac is pretty shitty. Ancient versions of all the tooling. Command-line utils have that weird BSD well-water flavor. No package management. Funny Docker quirks.

It doesn't have to be the best nix environment. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a good one. It just has to be "good-enough". For this, they still have an advantage over Windows. And compared with Linux, they still have the advantage that by-and-large, things "just work". I have never personally been able to say that about a Linux desktop I've had. There is always one more thing to tweak, one more knob to turn, etc...

I'm with you on the ESC key and touch bar though... which they thankfully fixed the missing ESC key.

meddlepal5y ago

Exactly what advantage does macOS shitty Unix environment have over Windows 10 w/ WSL2?

olyjohn5y ago

Everything WSL2 does has already been do-able with Windows for at least 10 years. It’s a VM with some file system sharing. You might as well just ask what advantage does MacOS have over Windows. WSL hasn’t changed anything really.

saagarjha5y ago

It's not running in a virtual machine.

1 more reply

apetresc5y ago

They _had_ the advantage over Windows. WSL2 is so well-integrated as of the latest major release that I think this advantage has now flipped.

selsta5y ago

Isn’t WSL2 basically a virtual machine with better integration? Is it still super slow when accessing /mnt?

I can also install something like multipass on macOS if I want a good integrated virtual machine.

dingaling5y ago

> by-and-large, things "just work".

Last week I had to drop to vi and edit nfs.conf on a friend's Mac to solve very slow transfer rates. "Just works" within a very narrow definition of primitive use cases.

rootusrootus5y ago

I was with you until they released the newest MBP. Now my beloved ESC is back. I already do all my development in a Vagrant instance so I've never been bothered by the tooling. In all other regards I prefer MacOS as a desktop environment to the currently available Linux choices.

ArgyleSound5y ago

> I'm still having trouble forgiving them for getting rid of the physical ESC key and turning volume control into a two-step routine on the TouchBar

To be fair it's always been a one-step routine on the touchbar (touch and drag the icon) and they brought back the escape key.

mmcconnell16185y ago

Touch and drag is easy to jump the volume up/down variable amounts but really sucks compared to a single key press for "just a little louder" or "just a little quieter." There is something satisfying in the discrete steps of volume notches.

On the other hand, my speakers have a physical volume dial that provides feedback via friction on movement so I like that better than touchbar or physical up/down buttons.

ArgyleSound5y ago

So there’s actually two types of touch and drag you can do. One is holding until the slider appears and then dragging, the other is flicking the icons left and right which causes single step increments.

Discoverability certainly sucks for that second one.

pjmlp5y ago

UNIX experience on Mac is as UNIX as it gets, given that it is certified as a proper UNIX.

Linux is its own thing and trying to mix UNIX with Linux is always going to lead to disappointment.

N1H1L5y ago

> The UNIX experience on the Mac is pretty shitty. Ancient versions of all the tooling. Command-line utils have that weird BSD well-water flavor. No package management. Funny Docker quirks.

Very, very true. And Homebrew is actively becoming worse now. A few years back, Homebrew was great - now using it feels like using some weird underground software stack that exists only because Apple hasn't come around to nixing it yet.

Vomzor5y ago

Tap the volume icon and swipe left or right without letting go to do it one fell swoop.

rescbr5y ago

> The UNIX experience on the Mac is pretty shitty. Ancient versions of all the tooling. Command-line utils have that weird BSD well-water flavor.

Well, OS X is Unix, but GNU is not Unix.

saagarjha5y ago

Correction: macOS is UNIX®

saagarjha5y ago

> Ancient versions of all the tooling. Command-line utils have that weird BSD well-water flavor. No package management.

That's what MacPorts is for ;)

jki2755y ago

Package management == Homebrew. No issues there.

Not a fan of the touchbar of course.

Otherwise everything else I need is usable on a Mac.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

selsta5y ago

> Ancient versions of all the tooling. Command-line utils have that weird BSD well-water flavor. No package management.

Can be easily fixed by installing homebrew. Also you claim it is a shitty Unix experience while complaining about BSD flavoured tools.

> Funny Docker quirks.

How is that Unix related? BSD has similar issues.

Maybe you should have written the GNU/Linux experience is pretty shitty on macOS but no one claimed otherwise.

mbreese5y ago

I'm with you on the ESC key and touch bar though... which they thankfully fixed the missing ESC key.

meddlepal5y ago

Exactly what advantage does macOS shitty Unix environment have over Windows 10 w/ WSL2?

olyjohn5y ago

saagarjha5y ago

It's not running in a virtual machine.

1 more reply

apetresc5y ago

They _had_ the advantage over Windows. WSL2 is so well-integrated as of the latest major release that I think this advantage has now flipped.

selsta5y ago

Isn’t WSL2 basically a virtual machine with better integration? Is it still super slow when accessing /mnt?

I can also install something like multipass on macOS if I want a good integrated virtual machine.

dingaling5y ago

> by-and-large, things "just work".

Last week I had to drop to vi and edit nfs.conf on a friend's Mac to solve very slow transfer rates. "Just works" within a very narrow definition of primitive use cases.

rootusrootus5y ago

ArgyleSound5y ago

> I'm still having trouble forgiving them for getting rid of the physical ESC key and turning volume control into a two-step routine on the TouchBar

To be fair it's always been a one-step routine on the touchbar (touch and drag the icon) and they brought back the escape key.

mmcconnell16185y ago

On the other hand, my speakers have a physical volume dial that provides feedback via friction on movement so I like that better than touchbar or physical up/down buttons.

ArgyleSound5y ago

Discoverability certainly sucks for that second one.

pjmlp5y ago

UNIX experience on Mac is as UNIX as it gets, given that it is certified as a proper UNIX.

Linux is its own thing and trying to mix UNIX with Linux is always going to lead to disappointment.

N1H1L5y ago

> The UNIX experience on the Mac is pretty shitty. Ancient versions of all the tooling. Command-line utils have that weird BSD well-water flavor. No package management. Funny Docker quirks.

Vomzor5y ago

Tap the volume icon and swipe left or right without letting go to do it one fell swoop.

rescbr5y ago

> The UNIX experience on the Mac is pretty shitty. Ancient versions of all the tooling. Command-line utils have that weird BSD well-water flavor.

Well, OS X is Unix, but GNU is not Unix.

saagarjha5y ago

Correction: macOS is UNIX®

saagarjha5y ago

> Ancient versions of all the tooling. Command-line utils have that weird BSD well-water flavor. No package management.

That's what MacPorts is for ;)

jki2755y ago

Package management == Homebrew. No issues there.

Not a fan of the touchbar of course.

Otherwise everything else I need is usable on a Mac.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse