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0 pointsmantas5y ago0 comments

> The Cold War was ended in negotiations with the Soviet Union that stipulated that no NATO expansion towards Russia would happen

There was no such negotiations with binding promises made public aside from interwebs rumors, frequently reposted on RT/Sputnik/etc. The end of Cold War was USSR unilaterally dissolving by agreement between Russia, Belarus and Ukraine.

Furthermore, Yeltsin publicly said that eastern europe can join NATO if they wish. The only request was that there would be no nuclear weapon moved to new NATO members. And there were talks about limiting conventional weapons. That's why current NATO forces in Baltic states and Poland are "rotational" rather than permanent.

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/18/world/yeltsin-now-seems-r...

> In the 90s the Russian were sticking mad as hell about this stuff, they just didn't have the power to do anything about it. In the last 15 years the have learn that they can, so they do.

As an ex-USSR citizen, Russia was damn friendly in early 90s. Russian SSR (separate from USSR) supported Baltic states during January events of 1991. Russian army was rather swiftly removed. Separation was rather smooth thanks to mutual understanding. Things started to change in late 90s though. Not sure where the braking point was.

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nickik5y ago

> There was no such negotiations with binding promises made public aside from interwebs rumors

I have heard from multiple cold war scholars some that were in government at that time that they promised this to Gorbachev. That said, it was never formally ratified.

This is just one example, another one is the non-adjustment of borders without agreemnt. But this was broken in the 90s when the US created Kosvo.

The missile treaties were broken by Bush.

> The end of Cold War was USSR unilaterally dissolving

Arguably the Cold War ended with the treaties between the Soviet Union and the US before it devolved. That is at least what US negotiators believed and you can listen interviews with them.

They are actually quite angry that people now say that the cold war ended because the Soviet Union collapsed.

> Furthermore, Yeltsin publicly said that eastern europe can join NATO if they wish.

Yeltsin was weak and had to agree to a lot of stuff that he didn't like. The Russian elites certainty never wanted the NATO to expand east.

> As an ex-USSR citizen, Russia was damn friendly in early 90s.

They are incredibly friendly right at the point in the history where they are weakest. Lenin was so friendly he signed over half of European Russia.

mantasOP5y ago

> I have heard from multiple cold war scholars some that were in government at that time that they promised this to Gorbachev. That said, it was never formally ratified.

And there was a lot of pressure to not separate from USSR up to coup of 1991. Especially from Western europe. Looking at our politicians from early 90s memoirs, Gorbachev broke those unwritten agreements with West by using military in January events of 1991.

> This is just one example, another one is the non-adjustment of borders without agreemnt. But this was broken in the 90s when the US created Kosvo.

Wasn't non-adjustment of borders some agreement in Helsinki in mid-70s?

> Arguably the Cold War ended with the treaties between the Soviet Union and the US before it devolved. That is at least what US negotiators believed and you can listen interviews with them.

Got any examples? Because

> Yeltsin was weak and had to agree to a lot of stuff that he didn't like. The Russian elites certainty never wanted the NATO to expand east.

While Yeltsin was rather weak (just like any politician in 90s in ex-USSR/Warsaw pact), the main difference was split between democractical vs imperial powers. Russian SSR government was were pro-democracy people congregated while pan-USSR structures were held by imperialists. When USSR dissolved, it took some time for imperialists to regroup and take over Russian Federation (ex Russian SSR) structures.

> They are incredibly friendly right at the point in the history where they are weakest. Lenin was so friendly he signed over half of European Russia.

Lenin only signed over non-ethnically-Russian territories of tsarist Russia. Tsarist Russia was called "jail of nations" for a reason.

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