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0 pointstwox25y ago0 comments

Agreed, which is why it's good that this stuff is being shared. It's a datapoint to consider for those of us as we make career choices. But let's face it, if we are not founders, then we are just "the help".

0 comments

falcolas5y ago

And without “the help”, most founders (OP included) won’t make it to the sale. You can’t scale without “the help”. You can’t grow your market without “the help”.

To badly paraphrase someone: “The idea isn’t what’s valuable, the implementation is.” That implementation is probably >90% thanks to “the help”.

intev5y ago

There's a sense of entitlement here that's not sitting well with me. Don't get me wrong, I think employees of a "startup" deserve to get some sort of payout during a liquidation event, but I think that payout should be directly proportional to how much risk was assumed.

Did they take a full standard salary? (Doesn't have to be SV 100k+ salaries, but standard for whatever is paid in their area). Did they do more than just code? etc etc

By your logic, the butcher who worked for market wages in a meat processing company should get a big pay day because Nestle decided to buy them.

aliston5y ago

The point is not that founders don't take on more risk than employees. It's that that software engineers fresh out of college are not good at evaluating risk adjusted returns. If they were, they'd realize that the current market rate for joining a startup is a bad deal, thereby forcing startups to up their equity compensation. Many a starry eyed new grad has been lured by tales of riches from a startup founder / snake oil salesman.

falcolas5y ago

There's a vast difference between a butcher in a meat processing facility and a trained professional software developer who is responsible for creating/supporting/etc your software.

As for entitlement, what entitles a founder to get ~50x the payout of their employees? Especially when they're also taking a SV level salary (not living in SV) and spending VC money.

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koolherc5y ago

It's all good until founders understand that "we are just the help". They are the ones with the most risk, and they cannot simply walk away to a new job if they don't like how things are going. But a lot of founders put too much weight on early employees, require working as much as the founder, or require to take responsibility in things that far outreach what they were accepting to when signing a contract.

falcolas5y ago

> They are the ones with the most risk, and they cannot simply walk away to a new job if they don't like how things are going

If a founder is spending VC money and paying themselves a SV grade salary, I would have trouble calling that a significant amount of risk.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

falcolas5y ago

And without “the help”, most founders (OP included) won’t make it to the sale. You can’t scale without “the help”. You can’t grow your market without “the help”.

To badly paraphrase someone: “The idea isn’t what’s valuable, the implementation is.” That implementation is probably >90% thanks to “the help”.

intev5y ago

Did they take a full standard salary? (Doesn't have to be SV 100k+ salaries, but standard for whatever is paid in their area). Did they do more than just code? etc etc

By your logic, the butcher who worked for market wages in a meat processing company should get a big pay day because Nestle decided to buy them.

aliston5y ago

falcolas5y ago

There's a vast difference between a butcher in a meat processing facility and a trained professional software developer who is responsible for creating/supporting/etc your software.

As for entitlement, what entitles a founder to get ~50x the payout of their employees? Especially when they're also taking a SV level salary (not living in SV) and spending VC money.

2 more replies

koolherc5y ago

falcolas5y ago

> They are the ones with the most risk, and they cannot simply walk away to a new job if they don't like how things are going

If a founder is spending VC money and paying themselves a SV grade salary, I would have trouble calling that a significant amount of risk.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse