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0 pointsdrchopchop5y ago0 comments

You'd have a better argument if you left out the first half.

>"Mostly peaceful protests", an ongoing gross misrepresentation of what normal people would call riots

That's a partisan, Fox News talking point. Statistically, the BLM protests were overwhelmingly peaceful. The news happens to focus on the small number that were not.

That's also an example of something which could be fairly, scientifically reported on. "Most protests were peaceful, and there were a few riots" is a good headline. "ANTIFA IS BURNING DOWN YOUR CITIES" is not.

If the latter gets better/viral newsfeed distribution than the first, then we have a serious problem.

0 comments

prohobo5y ago

That's exactly what we're talking about, isn't it?

Fragmentation of reality on the internet. There's no way around it because someone will just deny someone else's reality and substitute their own.

With intellectual honesty, the following can't be disputed:

* "A few riots" is actually hundreds of riots over the longest sustained period of civil unrest in American history (besides the civil war). Here's a geographical chart of all protests and riots from May 2020 to August 2020: https://acleddata.com/acleddatanew/wp-content/uploads/2020/0...

* For the people living in Portland, Seattle, New York, and other major cities the rioters were/are a threatening presence. In Minneapolis alone, 1,500 locations were damaged or destroyed by rioters. https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-st-paul-buildings-ar...

How does the information I just showed you present a picture in which "mostly peaceful protests" is the most accurate summary? What kind of information would it take to change your mind? Would that even be possible? Is this cherry picking?

I think on a forum like Hacker News we might actually get to the bottom of this particular point. But that's only because Hacker News isn't social media - it's a community based around tech, and it's heavily moderated. That changes the audience that will see our argument, and the entire dynamic of the dialogue.

I'm not here to argue about the riots or left/right politics. I'm just trying to show you that you are capable of being wrong, so stop trying to argue the politics and try to tackle the problem of how to end fragmentation.

drchopchopOP5y ago

> I'm just trying to show you that you are capable of being wrong

That's quite a rude way to try to win an argument. And yes, you're cherry picking. Did you even read the article which contained the first image you linked?

"The vast majority of demonstration events associated with the BLM movement are non-violent (see map below). In more than 93% of all demonstrations connected to the movement, demonstrators have not engaged in violence or destructive activity. Peaceful protests are reported in over 2,400 distinct locations around the country. Violent demonstrations,4 meanwhile, have been limited to fewer than 220 locations — under 10% of the areas that experienced peaceful protests. In many urban areas like Portland, Oregon, for example, which has seen sustained unrest since Floyd’s killing, violent demonstrations are largely confined to specific blocks, rather than dispersed throughout the city"

https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-vi...

HeroOfAges5y ago

Since when has sustained rioting been acceptable as long as it's "confined to specific blocks"? It quickly became clear to any rational person that rioting in Portland would occur consistently following peaceful protests and that a number of the peaceful protesters would participate in the riots. The effort to downplay what has been occurring in Portland is astonishing. I mean, how many blocks of sustained rioting are ok? Two? Ten?

lldbg5y ago

What is peace? And when is something peaceful? Webster's dictionary defines peaceful as "untroubled by conflict, agitation, or commotion". Certainly, if almost 10% of my coworkers were violent, I would not call my workplace peaceful. If one in ten of our servers were disrupted due to commotion, clients would quickly start leaving for alternatives.

In my own country we also saw protests after the death of George Floyd. These were dispersed forcefully by police, indirectly because of Corona restrictions. I do not think the police officers, who put their health and safety at risk, felt particularly peaceful when engaging huge crowds with batons and riot shields.

There were peaceful protests, and there were violent ones. There were orderly citizens as well as looters and rioters. The trend is what matters, the frequency. Imagine if 10% of a rock band's concerts resulted in venues being burnt down, people seriously hurt and even killed, would that band's concerts be considered peaceful?

I've seen videos from the affected cities and neighbourhoods, if that's what a peaceful America looks like then I hope they never experience commotion or unrest.

ChrisLomont5y ago

> the longest sustained period of civil unrest in American history

This is not even close to true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unr...

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