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0 pointsornornor5y ago0 comments

This becomes very time consuming, very fast. Even if the insurance pays the lawyers fees, I still have to setup an apointment, explain the situation again, give the documents, etc.

It's always "small" amounts like 50-500$, i.e. amounts that it sucks throwing out the window but that aren't big enough to justify sinking even more time in chasing.

I also don't believe this can be the only way. Most people don't have legal insurance and wouldn't pay a lawyer the equivalent of 1000$ for a dispute like that.

I'm talking every day stuff: a cellphone bill with an error on it (in the company's favour, always), or an Ikea piece of furniture that was delivered broken (but the package looked fine), or a voucher you were promised if you signed up for a particular health insurance plan and when it's time to get the voucher you're not eligible anymore... That kind of stuff.

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manquer5y ago

For smaller amounts there is usually an small claims court or ombudsman kind of framework in most jurisdictions , they rarely require lawyers, many times the company either fails to show up and you can get a default judgment , or they will settle out of court as the cost of the process is greater than the amount you are asking for.

This still requires some amount of time from you and the small filing fees, the way I would calculate is whether I can earn more in that half day I spend in court and is my documented evidence clear and simple enough that i have an high probability of success.

The judges in such courts are usually impatient - they have ton of cases in their the docket, concise and simple presentation of facts and no opinions etc goes a long way, they also know you are not a lawyer so there is always some latitude for the plaintiff that usually you don't find in other places

Also your ability to sue in small claims court depends on jurisdiction, i.e. if you have any forced arbitration clauses in your contract and whether the jurisdiction has exceptions for small claims despite such clauses etc.

berdario5y ago

Isn't that the kind of stuff for which you'd rely on opening a dispute with your credit card provider?

ornornorOP5y ago

I live in Switzerland. A lot of stuff is paid cash at the store, with a debit card, or as a bill that you receive at home later. There is no credit card involved in the transaction.

I've also tried charging back on my Swiss card once... What a mission. I was treated the same way any other store treats me: download this PDF, print it out, fill it in (5 pages), send it in the mail, wait 3 weeks, never hear back.

Compared to my North American cards: one phone call and the dispute is open. Wait a month and get the credit. End of story.

Or for cell phone issues in NA: try calling once, get nowhere, tell the regulator with time of call and name of the person, a week later get a call from the "VIP" service at the telco who will basically give me whatever I want to make the complaint go away.

There are no regulators with that kind of power that I know of here. All of the "regulators" have no teeth, and so the businesses don't fear them.

mfsch5y ago

What can help in Switzerland (and potentially in other countries in Europe) is to complain through a consumer protection office. SRF has a TV and radio show (Kassensturz/Espresso) where they regularly solve consumer issues by threatening bad publicity.

Another option that can work is to send a bill for the owed amount and if they fail to respond start the process of debt collection (Betreibung). It’s a pain and doesn’t work well for people who actually cannot pay, but for regular businesses where you’re stuck somewhere in their bureaucracy it’s a way to force them to respond to your claims that’s a bit less involved than straight-out suing them.

amenod5y ago

This might explain it - Switzerland is in Europe, but not part of EU. At least in EU consumer has lots of rights and is pretty well protected. I have no idea how that is in Switzerland (though what you report surprises me). That said, legal action in Europe... good luck. :)

If this happens to you a lot, go for a credit card. "Chargeback" works worldwide (afaik) and it puts you in the position of power, where merchant has to prove that you are in the wrong instead of the other way around. Simple solution and no real drawback.

EDIT: ...and change your CC company. They seem incompetent.

corty5y ago

CC chargebacks in Germany can be a hassle. Most people get their CC through their bank, and have to submit chargebacks through their banks. Half of the banks do straightforward and simple chargebacks, half want you to do a ritual dance like the swiss example and treat you like you want to rip off someone.

Also, consumer protection is nice on paper, but especially for smaller amounts of money or not-so-clear cases it doesn't work well. You still have to get a lawyer and go to court. Also, since there are no class-action suits US-style, where companies seem to be somewhat afraid of getting sued, in Europe they rely on the statistics of most people being too lazy to sue, because everyone has to sue one-by-one for themselves only. Only rarely, for high-profile stuff, consumer protection offices get involved with class-style (but fairly toothless usually) suits.

wdb5y ago

Even the Swiss Financial Ombudsman are against the customer in Switzerland but getting a lawyer involved helped a lot

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