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0 pointsprotonimitate5y ago0 comments

> If anything, the entire team seemed to do far more due diligence in decision making than pretty much 90% of the move-fast and break things (TM) SV startups.

Right, but this still isn't the fault of React. My gripe with this article, and view points like this, is that instead of taking ownership it's again the tool that gets blame and just further perpetuates the "js bad" meme.

> And I'm not entirely convinced that it is a good tradeoff in the crazy JS ecosystem where everything is changing and breaking all the time, especially if you are building more complex things.

Right, and if that's your opinion (and a perfectly valid one!) then don't pick the JS ecosystem and cry when it bites you.

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ralmidani5y ago

I agree people should take ownership over their decisions, but it's more nuanced than "don't cry": if someone makes a mistake/bad decision, shouldn't they warn others so they don't do the same?

And frankly, let's stop pretending the JS ecosystem is not problematic. Can anyone in good faith argue for a JS project which offers the stability, refinement, and elegance of projects available for Ruby (Rails), Python (Django), Elixir (Phoenix), etc? Even micro-frameworks like Flask, which don't include tons of batteries, are still much more dev-friendly than Node/Express/React/etc.

nawgz5y ago

>frankly, let's stop pretending the JS ecosystem is not problematic. Can anyone in good faith argue for a Node project

React is a node project, so I can do so trivially. React is a top tier library when it comes to key features like stability, documentation, backwards compatibility, and extensibility / usability.

I can also say TypeScript is one of the most amazing projects of all time.

Last but not least - express is super easy to use. I don't know what "dev-friendly" means, as a criteria though. Keep in mind, though, since it's JS, it's really easy to wrap and extend. To me, you have to justify how Flask is superior to Express; I think you just like Python more.

ralmidani5y ago

React is stable? React.createElement -> Sub-classing the Component class -> "just use hooks everywhere" in the span of a few years? Sure, Django went from function-based to class-based views, but the change was far less abrupt, and you can still use functional views if you want to.

As for TypeScript, I agree it's amazing, but it's neither a framework nor a library for building web applications. It's more of a superset/transpiler. It makes working with Node/React/Express better, but it doesn't replace them.

With regard to Express, it's decent, but e.g. do we really need to torture newcomers by expecting them to know they'll need to also include/install and require body-parser? I mean, why would I be using a web framework, even a micro-one, if I'm expected to bring in a separate tool just for parsing requests?

Regarding the suggestion that I like Python more, I would gladly choose TypeScript over Python (the typing tools there are still immature) if there was less churn in the JS ecosystem. Deno is promising. :)

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ralmidani5y ago

I agree people should take ownership over their decisions, but it's more nuanced than "don't cry": if someone makes a mistake/bad decision, shouldn't they warn others so they don't do the same?

nawgz5y ago

>frankly, let's stop pretending the JS ecosystem is not problematic. Can anyone in good faith argue for a Node project

React is a node project, so I can do so trivially. React is a top tier library when it comes to key features like stability, documentation, backwards compatibility, and extensibility / usability.

I can also say TypeScript is one of the most amazing projects of all time.

ralmidani5y ago

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