An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013) (opens in new tab)

There is so much gold in here. The human race would do well to explore how it's possible to turn hatred into love. It clearly happened here, and I've witnessed it on a smaller scale as a 16 year old in Vienna. As an immigrant, it was easy to find yourself in the wrong place at a wrong time. That finally happened one night, and the only thing that saved me was seeing a sign on one of the guys' jackets that belonged to a soccer club where I played in a young division (these guys were lifelong supporters, so my small achievement was enough to view me in a completely different light).

Deeply embedded in our evolutionary story is the urge to protect people you have something in common with (and I suppose this works the other way around as well). How easy would it be to hack this trait and increase the chances of world peace by consciously exploiting it on a global scale? Think of it as next-gen UN, but instead of focusing on top-down conflict resolution, we would work from the bottom up and search for things we're passionate about and can connect with people from across the world to collaborate on. Rule #1: teams should not be divided on a country by country basis.

One aspect of this that lends itself to the type of "easy" reconciliation that makes us think avoiding war shouldn't be so hard, is that neither party here actually had a sustained interest in the other. Serbia didn't have years, let alone decades or centuries, of grievance against the USA, and vis versa. The same with the US and Vietnam, or Japan, or Germany, or just about every other war the US has gotten involved in. As far as Americans are concerned, not long before whichever war, most Americans didn't even know where they "enemy" country was, or if it was a real place at all.

There are conflicts for which a resolution would require one or both sides to compromise on a position they hold, sometimes that they've held for a significant time. Those conflicts are much more thorny and the stories of reconciliation are usually much more personal even though it's clear that the underlying cultural conflict remains. Probably the most obvious is the Palestinian-Israeli conflict but for America, those unresolved internal conflicts that are unlikely to rise to war but just as fraught linger, regardless of the innumerable personal bonds between parties.

The joke at that time was Serbs saying: "Sorry, we didn't know it was invisible."

Another famous example of how in the darkest hours there's longing for peace and friendship is the Christmas Truce during the first world war [1].

British soldiers heard German troops in the trenches singing carols and patriotic songs. They started shouting messages to each other. The next day, soldiers from both sides met, exchanged gifts, took photographs and played football.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

This wasnt very surprising when it happened as historically The united states is its own worst enemy when it comes to military counterintelligence assessments. Id surmise no general wants to openly admit to the enemies asymmetric advantage.

Francis Gary Powers was no doubt stunned to find his U2 spyplane tumbling from the skies in 1960 thanks to what I can only imagine is inherent bias in the war room against the enemy. Its also worth noting the Tupolev TU95 bear left Washington scratching its heads for nearly a decade, furiously revising the numbers for speed and range. https://web.archive.org/web/20081211055010/http://www.aviati...

in 2006 china managed to tail a US aircraft carrier and emerge in torpedo range with a Song 039 type submarine, a generation behind the US, which was previously thought incapable of such an operation. https://thediplomat.com/2015/11/closest-encounter-since-2006...

Those unfamiliar with history text might also recall the day when Iran not only detected but casually landed a sophisticated US military drone at one of its airbases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid...

Worldwide, the sort of divisions where one's own side is all good and the other side is unspeakably evil, are on the upswing again. Having lived through a full cycle of this (old style cold war/thaw/current situation) I try to remind people that we're all humans, and about 99% everywhere have the same instincts to survive and get along. Not everyone listens.

Air forces of the world seem to have their own more strict code of honor, moral or mutual respect. Hermann Goering is known to have enjoyed some hospitality after surrendering[1]. Also Franz Stigler escorted a badly damaged US bomber to safety[2].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnX5HXbRbcA

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Brown_and_Franz_Stigle...

My Dad helped enable one of these "after the war" meetups.

His older brother was on the USS Phoenix, a US light cruiser that was in Pearl Harbor when it was bombed. His brother survived that, but eventually succumbed to sickness in the war and died.

My Dad started digging into the history of the ship later in life, and learned that it was ultimately sold to the Argentine Navy, where it became the ARA General Belgrano. The Belgrano was sunk during during the Falklands War by the Royal Navy submarine Conqueror with 323 lost.

Wanting to keep digging more, my Dad got in contact with a man who had been on board the Belgrano, and they became pen pals.

And digging more, he eventually struck up a friendship with a sailor from the Conqueror as well, and they too became pen pals.

And then he got the two of them to start talking to each other. It took a while to get them talking but it ended up being very cathartic, in particular for the British sailor, who had felt great guilt for what they had done. All three still share letters and emails to this day.

There's a PS to this story in a way. Ever the digger my Dad also got an introduction to a gentleman who was a Japanese pilot at Pearl Harbor. My Dad eventually flew to Japan to meet him.

It’s wild how every time something bad happens to a US soldier it’s a newsworthy event worthy of somber tones and think pieces but when they gun down 40 civilians it’s just another day at the office.

Here's the documentary film that was created about this encounter:

https://optimisticfilm.com/videos/docs/the-second-meeting/

> one woman said to me, “When you were shot down, I celebrated. I cheered with my friends. But we were upset that you were not killed. We thought you deserved to die.” You can imagine the hush in the audience. And then she said, “But now that we have gotten to know you, I’m so glad that you are here.” I was weeping.

> There’s so much misunderstanding in the world resulting in unnecessary sorrow. Having the Danis—a positive, joyful family—in my life has altered my perspective. It may sound trite, but if only there were a way for all the religious, cultural, and ethnic groups of the world to meet and get to know one another in a meaningful way—the way Zoltan and I have—how could we ever go to war again?

For those curious (the article doesn't address it) it was the bomb hatch that momentarily gave away the planes position.

I'm curious as to how such a huge oversight in the design of the craft made it to production, since it's widely known that 90 degree angles is a surefire way to get instantly detected on radar.

Interesting to rewind to before the engagement & think about the odds of them both ending up alive years later: there was a chance that Zoltan would be killed by taking a risky third look with the radar from a fixed position. There was a fair chance that both missiles hit Zelko's plane, a chance that any single missile hit would be enough to kill him or render him unable to eject, and a fair chance of him dying anyway even if he did manage to eject. Also a chance that both missiles missed and there would be nothing to write about.

I think it’s pretty interesting to read about pilots shot down in WW1 over enemy territory. They were brought into the enemy’s squadrons and treated with respect. They would talk and laugh. The book The Aviators talks about this a bit.

It also talks about how Rickenbacker didn’t want to kill the people in the airplane he shot down (well it got bitter after Lufbery died). He just wanted to shoot down the airplane and accomplish his mission.

I think fighter pilots don’t have a hatred for the others across the line. They study their skill to have an advantage over the enemy’s systems. It’s not all athleticism. It’s science. As Rickenbacker said “Fighting in the air is not a sport. It is scientific murder.” I would assume the same goes for the SA-3 Low Blow operator.

It's interesting that Zoltan shot down Zelko, and their "second meeting" was filmed by Zeljko.

I'm not casting any doubt, and I realize that one is a first name while the others aren't. It's still interesting.

This reminds me of the single most important thing I learned from my grandfather, or ever perhaps.

He was a submariner in WWII, was at pearl harbor that Sunday morning when the attack started, and through the war with many difficult and dangerous submarine tours (he was nearly killed and received the purple heart in this incident during the 7th war patrol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Saury_(SS-189) ). After he got better he was part of the occupation of Japan after the war.

My knowledge of him, from him, started many years later after he "retired". Like many like him he never really retired, working as a Sergeant at arms in the Colorado capitol building through most of his Golden years. When young, I would ask him things about the war, his submarine, what he did and saw. He always obliged, but in a way that I have only come to truly appreciate myself until I was well into adulthood. He told me the stories, but always with a jovial, deliberately glass is half full way. I would ask why we're we fighting with them, and he would say things like "they had bad leadership", or "the bad man in charge made them". He would laugh and have a great time telling the parts of the story he did.

I've since come to realize through conversations with my Mother and research I myself have done that there was far more to these stories, none of it appropriate for a young child to grapple with, and all of which completely unknown to me until I was "old enough" (are we ever old enough to process such things as happened in WWII? Perhaps I should just say old enough to better grapple with).

A watershed moment for me was hearing the song "The War Was in Color" by the band Carbon Leaf. In it, a young man comes across his grandfather's chest of old black and white photos from the war. He asks questions, was it in color? The grandfather replies "trust me grandson, the war was in color". And goes onto describe the vivid details of war. My grandfather never did. Instead he shared with us what he learned living in Japan, he taught us how to use chop sticks, he would cook Japanese dishes he learned to prepare while there, he shifted the focus from war. I never once heard him say a disparaging word about anyone, any nationality, especially those with whom he fought.

I knew not what I asked. My grandfather, Irv to those who loved him, had every right to answer my questions. He didn't, he gave me the pieces he knew I needed at that time to build a world view in me that he hoped for our future. A world view where we respect and love eachother for our differences rather than our similarities. Thank you grandpa.

A wonderful story indeed, heart warming with a sense of humor. War is really stupid. But there is still an unsolved mystery here, How did the radar pick up the signals? Didn't the pilot turn off all the radios?

You'll never hear a story like this about a drone pilot.

I'm reminded of something C.S Lewis shared:

“I have often thought to myself how it would have been if, when I served in the first World War, I and some young German had killed each other simultaneously and found ourselves together a moment after death. I cannot imagine that either of us would have felt any resentment or even any embarrassment. I think we might have laughed over it"

I remember this event as it was yesterday, I was 9 years old living in Serbia during that period. It was a terrifying experience. My uncle-in-law was in the division that shutdown the F-117, he can talk for hours about how they operated and all the technical details.

Thank you for sharing this amazing story. Now I need to go find this documentary.

"Sorry, we didn't know it was invisible" *

-was the famous "apology for shooting down the airplane" that appeared in the news the next day *-Serbs are know for their strong dark humor

I don't see much the points of such articles. Of course you as a person is different from the work / social position you have and the stuff you have to do or the positions you have to take.

It's the same than politicians or policemen who don't respect lockdown.. of course they HAVE to say to the population to respect. it's their job and if they say the contrary many people will die. But they are also people so kinda OF COURSE some are not going to respect it.

That doesn't make them hypocrites actually. It makes them humen.

This reminds me of the Soviet blockade of West Berlin. Virtually overnight two sides that had been trying to kill each other were working hand in hand to save the Germans living in Berlin.

I didn't see it covered in this article and the documentary is unavailable through normal streaming at this time. (Anyone in the U.S. find otherwise?)

But what I was hoping to find out was how the identifies of each party was discovered, presumably by the documentary maker?

Growing up in the pre-Internet era Reader’s Digest was such a good resource due to stories like these. Was always excited to see a new magazine arrive every month.

I wonder if it’s any good now. Haven’t looked at it in years.

If those two can find friendship I am hopeful we can find unity in the USA.

Not sure this administration can make that happen, but I hope eventually it will be achieved.

All wars are proxy wars. The ones who truly wish to fight never do the fighting

Let's not forget that Biden was in favor of bombing Serbia. China does not believe for one second that the bombing of their embassy in Belgrade was an accident.

It is so weird that men in army are willing to go and kill each other and later behave as friends "because they have a shared experience". Is it a coping mechanism to help oneself' conscience? Or maybe just an example that we really are just machines following the program of the day?

"lmao you got wrekt, nerd"