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0 pointsdmm5y ago0 comments

Another thing to consider is that in many areas it's not legal for cyclists to use the sidewalk.

Most sidewalks aren't appropriate for cycling. The exceptions I was describing are mostly found in big commercial developments, target, walmart, etc. Around me they tend to build wide sidewalks, well separated from the busy road. Here's an example:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9146941,-92.3196647,117m/dat...

But most sidewalks aren't like that they are crossed regularly with driveways and end at a road every block. Every driveway is dangerous because drivers just don't look for people moving at bike speeds(2-3x faster than a pedestrian) on sidewalks. I personally know two people hit while cycling on a sidewalk because somebody pulled into a driveway and didn't see them.

Imagine you're a cyclist, on the sidewalk, trying to cross a four-way stop. If you cross at the sidewalk, you're at extreme danger of being hit by a car making a right turn. This is called a right-hook.

The road infrastructure in the US was built without consideration for bikes and so it's really annoying to many drivers when cyclists use roads but that doesn't mean the right place for cyclists is on the sidewalk.

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souprock5y ago

OK, I'll imagine I'm a cyclist, trying to cross a four-way stop. When I was a teen, I used to do exactly that, riding my 10-speed on the sidewalk. This is how it goes:

Approach the intersection, coasting and then braking. Come to a stop, with feet on the ground. Optionally, dismount. Wait for a big gap in the stream of cars. Walk or ride across the intersection, remounting as necessary, and then continue on riding.

I'm not seeing the extreme danger here. It's not possible for a car to make a right turn because there isn't any car. The cyclist doesn't cross until the cars are gone.

Urban adjustment: there might be a "walk button", and there is a chance that it is actually connected to a traffic signal. Cross only with the walk indicator active.

I don't see any reason why this should be illegal. It's far safer than the alternatives.

dmmOP5y ago

> Optionally, dismount.

For sure, one of the advantages of cycling is that you can at any time become a pedestrian by dismounting. This allows you to take advantage of pedestrian crossings. It's going to be really annoying to dismount at every intersection or every ~500ft/155m.

> The cyclist doesn't cross until the cars are gone.

There's a four-way stop by my house that continuously has traffic for a hour twice a day during rush hour.

> remounting as necessary

A key to road safety is behaving in a predictable manner. Cars are supposed to yield to pedestrians at crosswalk but bikes are vehicles.

It's far safer at the intersection to merge into traffic, take the lane and yield the intersection with the same rules as other vehicles.

> It's far safer than the alternatives.

History shows it's not. Sidewalks aren't designed for use by vehicles going 3x the speed of pedestrians.

It's not safe for the pedestrians and it's not safe for the cyclists.

souprock5y ago

At the four-way stop by your house that continuously has traffic for a hour twice a day during rush hour, how do pedestrians cross? Is it even safe for them to cross?

Whatever the answer, that works for cyclists. Simply dismount, then act like a pedestrian. Maybe the intersection is unsafe for pedestrians, in which case it is also unsafe for cyclists.

The idea that "bikes are vehicles" is a load of nonsense. It's clear that the only cyclists talking to legislators are the ones in the top 0.01% for acceleration and speed. For all the rest of us, we're pedestrians, even if the law pretends otherwise.

The speed difference, mass difference, and energy difference are all terrible for bikes against trucks. Pretending otherwise is silly. We might as well compare an little old person on a bike, just 120 pounds total going 10 MPH, with 210-pound Usain Bolt running at 28 MPH.

The problem of running down pedestrians with a bike is simply solved by not doing that. The cyclist must slow down and give a wide gap or get some sort of acknowledgement that passing is OK. This isn't hard.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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souprock5y ago

OK, I'll imagine I'm a cyclist, trying to cross a four-way stop. When I was a teen, I used to do exactly that, riding my 10-speed on the sidewalk. This is how it goes:

I'm not seeing the extreme danger here. It's not possible for a car to make a right turn because there isn't any car. The cyclist doesn't cross until the cars are gone.

Urban adjustment: there might be a "walk button", and there is a chance that it is actually connected to a traffic signal. Cross only with the walk indicator active.

I don't see any reason why this should be illegal. It's far safer than the alternatives.

dmmOP5y ago

> Optionally, dismount.

> The cyclist doesn't cross until the cars are gone.

There's a four-way stop by my house that continuously has traffic for a hour twice a day during rush hour.

> remounting as necessary

A key to road safety is behaving in a predictable manner. Cars are supposed to yield to pedestrians at crosswalk but bikes are vehicles.

It's far safer at the intersection to merge into traffic, take the lane and yield the intersection with the same rules as other vehicles.

> It's far safer than the alternatives.

History shows it's not. Sidewalks aren't designed for use by vehicles going 3x the speed of pedestrians.

It's not safe for the pedestrians and it's not safe for the cyclists.

souprock5y ago

At the four-way stop by your house that continuously has traffic for a hour twice a day during rush hour, how do pedestrians cross? Is it even safe for them to cross?

Whatever the answer, that works for cyclists. Simply dismount, then act like a pedestrian. Maybe the intersection is unsafe for pedestrians, in which case it is also unsafe for cyclists.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse