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0 pointsbabypuncher4y ago0 comments

It's fine to want all your communication on an open protocol, but email is just plain clunky and not good at all for the types of online communication people have grown accustomed to. It literally is just an electronic equivalent of sending a letter, and inherits most of the limitations that implies.

If any of us are ever going to convince friends and family to leave proprietary platforms like Messenger and Discord, we are going to need an open protocol that allows for the same features and level of polish. Trying to get everyone to just use email is a complete non-starter.

0 comments

chii4y ago

> It literally is just an electronic equivalent of sending a letter, and inherits most of the limitations that implies

that's not giving email enough credit. Email has zero limitations unlike real snail mail - the email client is the limitation, and that's "just" software.

The fact that gmail client was so successful is evidence that email could've been _the_ premiere platform for open communication. Instead, we now have many separate walled gardens vying for dominance. Imagine how the world would've been if snail mail back in the 20th century needed different stamps for different recipients!

paxys4y ago

Email has very real limitations, imposed both by the protocol itself and by lack of consensus among all the major and minor clients.

darau14y ago

Can you give some examples? I've never seen any mentioned.

3 more replies

ryandrake4y ago

> If any of us are ever going to convince friends and family to leave proprietary platforms

I’ve kind of thrown in the towel on this fight. People are going to use what they like. For me, it’s E-mail. My friends and family know how to get in touch with me if they need to: using E-mail. If they want to text each other or WhatsApp each other or Snapchat each other or whatever it is they do, they can go right ahead: it doesn’t affect me. And that’s all OK!

MereInterest4y ago

> If they want to text each other or WhatsApp each other or Snapchat each other or whatever it is they do, they can go right ahead: it doesn’t affect me.

So when Facebook slurps up your email address by virtue of your friends using WhatsApp, that doesn't affect you?

ryandrake4y ago

Not really, because I don't use Facebook. I'm avoiding the bulk of the harm from Facebook (e.g. the dopamine spikes, wasted time I'll never get back, feed addiction, emotional manipulation/experiments, etc.) by simply not using it. Until I start getting ads from them even off of Facebook properties, I don't really care what they think they know about me.

Sure, they now have my E-mail address. I guess that sucks, but it was due to some other idiot's lack of OpSec, and there is nothing I can do about it. I'm not going to convince 2,000 people to stop using Facebook, let alone 2 million or 2 billion.

addicted4y ago

Both Google and MS created excellent IM systems based on email.

It can be done. It isn’t because there is no billion dollar exit possible on an email based system.

atatatat4y ago

What IM systems are you referring to..?

stephenhuey4y ago

Pretty sure he's talking about the original chat embedded in the Gmail interface. The earliest records I can find in my logs are from February 2006. For at least 7 years I used it, and for many years my usage was quite extensive. Either due to changed preferences when I got older or iMessage or other things, it looks like I generally stopped chatting in there around May 2013. From my perspective, Google was sitting on a gold mine because so many people I knew in the USA and across the ocean were using it and it worked very well until they started fiddling with the product in ways that made it more clunky.

chagaif4y ago

Matrix.org is exactly what you are describing

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

chii4y ago

> It literally is just an electronic equivalent of sending a letter, and inherits most of the limitations that implies

that's not giving email enough credit. Email has zero limitations unlike real snail mail - the email client is the limitation, and that's "just" software.

paxys4y ago

Email has very real limitations, imposed both by the protocol itself and by lack of consensus among all the major and minor clients.

darau14y ago

Can you give some examples? I've never seen any mentioned.

3 more replies

ryandrake4y ago

> If any of us are ever going to convince friends and family to leave proprietary platforms

MereInterest4y ago

> If they want to text each other or WhatsApp each other or Snapchat each other or whatever it is they do, they can go right ahead: it doesn’t affect me.

So when Facebook slurps up your email address by virtue of your friends using WhatsApp, that doesn't affect you?

ryandrake4y ago

addicted4y ago

Both Google and MS created excellent IM systems based on email.

It can be done. It isn’t because there is no billion dollar exit possible on an email based system.

atatatat4y ago

What IM systems are you referring to..?

stephenhuey4y ago

chagaif4y ago

Matrix.org is exactly what you are describing

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse