> (v) Account Sign-In: If your app doesn’t include significant account-based features, let people use it without a login. If your app supports account creation, you must also offer account deletion within the app. Apps may not require users to enter personal information to function, except when directly relevant to the core functionality of the app or required by law. If your core app functionality is not related to a specific social network (e.g. Facebook, WeChat, Weibo, Twitter, etc.), you must provide access without a login or via another mechanism. Pulling basic profile information, sharing to the social network, or inviting friends to use the app are not considered core app functionality. The app must also include a mechanism to revoke social network credentials and disable data access between the app and social network from within the app. An app may not store credentials or tokens to social networks off of the device and may only use such credentials or tokens to directly connect to the social network from the app itself while the app is in use.
Apple’s playing field is just much more narrow, which allows it to enforce rules like these in an elegant manner which makes for a much better experience to the end user.
Quote:
The app must also include a mechanism to revoke social network credentials and disable data access between the app and social network from within the app. An app may not store credentials or tokens to social networks off of the device and may only use such credentials or tokens to directly connect to the social network from the app itself while the app is in use.
Separately, they should also do this for subscriptions.
Ok, shoutout Apple for this. But shouldn't they apply their policy intent to themselves too? I can technically use an iPhone without an AppleID, but you need to login to download apps. I would argue installing apps shouldn't require a login.
When we talked to the support team they told us their by far largest task was handling account deletions. They had tried to just put a button in the control panel, but the CEO of the company thought it was bad for retention.
So we started writing scripts for "I want to cancel my account" and similar requests. The official process also required the users to verify by email after talking to support, so there were a number of steps. Eventually we needed an API call for actually completing the process. But we were told the CEO had to approve.
The CEO didn't know we were working on automating account deletions. And when we finally got to talk to him about giving us API access, he decided it would be easier to just add an account deletion button to the control panel. That's how we lost our initial business case.
I think either the card was expiring naturally or it was google pay or something that I could shut off. (it was years ago by now so thats why the vague details)
anyway, they actually tried to say I owed them money for years and I even got emails and calls from collections companies for a few years.
If they had been in the US I bet it would have been harder to just blow them off like that.
Simply stopping payments is not the ultimate trump you and I both thoight it should be.
For my part I decided I was on record as having requested to cancel the service, and had not used the service, so do your worst. Go ahead and try to convince a judge that I owe you anything.
This has even become a way of trolling in some subreddits where you try to make people waste time answering you in detail then deleting all your messages.
This has prompted some people to quote bigger parts of the original message.
Deleting accounts is a right, no problem about it, but deleting public information is really problematic. The right to be forgotten should be a moral right, not a legal one. I don't want it to be illegal to point out politicians responsibilities in Iran-Contra or the Iraq war even 20 years after.
I’ve come across more and more sites in recent years with no account deletion option and it’s hugely frustrating.
You ingest data and then it and derived data goes god knows where in your organization. How do you track all of that down?
(There’s “should be” and “actually is”. I’m referring to the latter.)
But I don’t expect people on HN to complain about this. They hold every other website to absurd standards on data ownership and content moderation, while happily being users of a site where they own none of the data and are subject to strict rules about what can be discussed and how.
where on HN did I waive or assign copyright or ownership to YC?
The FAQ ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html ) says you just need to email them to get stuff deleted:
> we care about protecting individual users and take care of privacy requests every day, so if we can help, please email hn@ycombinator.com
You have a right to complain if someone lies about something you said, either by putting words in your mouth or taking credit for your words.
You have zero rights over anyone else's memory of the fact that you said something or what you said.
That's not some new thing HN is doing, that's just life.
Threads of [deleted content] answering to [deleted content] are hard to follow.
Reality: Apps no longer support seamless account creation and instead redirect the user to a website to register, user can no longer manage any aspect of their account from the app.
Alongside, of course, the assumption that "companies don't respect their users in any way, shape, or form."
These seem like assumptions which, while they certainly have exceptions, are well borne out by the available data.
I think some might argue that being able to intercept a user at account deletion via support gives them the opportunity to either solve a misunderstanding in the product or better understand why the user is leaving but I think there are much better ways to accomplish this. I’m more convinced this is done as a dark pattern to add friction to the deletion process.
A notable example was having to contact support to delete a Starbucks account.
And they could still offer an account deletion button which automatically filed a support request. Most sites which don’t offer account deletion have made me dig or google for a solution instead of putting any info in a contextually relevant spot such as in account settings or in a support article about disabling an account.
Unfortunately I do not have evidence to justify this position but for most companies from an incentives standpoint as I understand them: 1) a user who cannot delete an account will have a far easier time using the service again compared to a user who has deleted an account so they are more likely to reengage, 2) user numbers and active user numbers may be important metrics for funding or company evaluation, 3) assuming data is deleted on account deletion then that can no longer be used for marketing or model training, 4) services which rely on the network effects from the user base need to have a relevant and usually large user base to provide consistent value, 5) if done manually there support and or dev cost on each account delete request.
How do you clearly explain to a user that if they delete their account on app X, apps Y and Z will also have all of their account data deleted?
Also the stakes are a lot higher as it could delete all of someone’s photos, backups, music and video purchases - not to mention all of their apps and related data.
I believe you can delete it through the iCloud website.
So Apple’s new pro-consumer policy applies to everyone but Apple. Interesting, but not unexpected.
Visa cc passed new policy in 2020 and New York did in February 2021. So the infuriating practice of forcing us to call or go through chat loops to quit a basic subscription are numbered. I feel strongly enough that I started brightback.com in 2018 to help make online cancels easy for app/saas developers to offer while keeping it simple for the customer.
1/ not tell the user this info.
2/ keep track of the fact this account was flagged after the account was deleted, for instance by keeping a hash of the email address of the accounts that were flagged?
For all the people who fall prey to misleading tactics and don’t know how to cancel.
> @DHH - Jul 3, 2020