undefined | Better HN

0 pointsmoralestapia4y ago0 comments

>By the time people are allowed to let their cars drive unsupervised, the crash rate of AI versus human will probably be 1:10 or so.

This sort of statement keeps being parroted over and over again. As Linus would say, talk is cheap, show me the code; then we can speak.

>So even when those cars ram into fire trucks from time to time [...]

This is just insane, honestly, and if this is the premise that guides the development of these sort of systems I'll be glad to never set foot on one.

0 comments

shkkmo4y ago

The entire way we approach driver liability in general is insane.

The Attorney General of South Dakota was looking at his phone, swerved into the shoulder, killed man and then left the scene. He claimed he thought he hit a deer, even though the victim's head went through the windshield and the victims glasses were later found inside the car.

What consequences did the Attorney General face? Was his licence revoked or suspended? Did he serve any jail time? Did he resign? The answer to all of these is "No." The only result was two misdemeanors and a 500 dollar fine.

So yes, accepting occaisonal inhuman errors from a system that is 10x safer (hypothetical, no current systems have this record) than human drivers may also be insane but it would still be far more sane than the current approach to human drivers.

moralestapiaOP4y ago

The problem with this is you're using the worst possible examples of driving as a benchmark, and that is quite a low standard to have.

Take a look at the best possible examples, instead, and try to improve over that, then we're talking.

You cannot be a shitty doctor and bring out an excuse like "Oh, but wait, this guy has lost more patients than me, so I'm fine".

You really don't want to have a race to the bottom where human lives are at stake.

shkkmo4y ago

I'm not using it as a benchmark at all.

I'm using a high profile example to point out clear issues with how we handle human driver responsibility. If your negligence directly results in you killing someone, you should lose your license to drive.

If we someday reach the point where autonomous driving systems are actually 10x safer than human drivers and those systems still have issues with hitting emergency vehicles, we should absolutely hold those companies responsible for those accidents.

My point is that not holding those companies responsible would be less insane than our current practice of letting clearly negligent drivers continue to drive with minimal consequences after they kill someone.

So instead of being outraged about this hypothetical future, why not be outraged about the insane lack of consequences that drivers face currently?

kevinventullo4y ago

That seems more like plain old political corruption than a problem with the way driver liability is handled. If you or I did that we’d almost certainly be facing prison time.

pfortuny4y ago

There is no code, that is the problem.

You (or the Transport Administration) do not have access to the training data, the training parameters or anything at all.

It is just a black-box which we are all to trust because "it works, mostly".

In my book, that goes against any notion of admissibility by a government agency.

amelius4y ago

Yes anything or anyone outside of the norm becomes a target.

E.g. wear your hair in a funny way that's never been trained on? You're a target!

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

shkkmo4y ago

The entire way we approach driver liability in general is insane.

moralestapiaOP4y ago

The problem with this is you're using the worst possible examples of driving as a benchmark, and that is quite a low standard to have.

Take a look at the best possible examples, instead, and try to improve over that, then we're talking.

You cannot be a shitty doctor and bring out an excuse like "Oh, but wait, this guy has lost more patients than me, so I'm fine".

You really don't want to have a race to the bottom where human lives are at stake.

shkkmo4y ago

I'm not using it as a benchmark at all.

So instead of being outraged about this hypothetical future, why not be outraged about the insane lack of consequences that drivers face currently?

kevinventullo4y ago

That seems more like plain old political corruption than a problem with the way driver liability is handled. If you or I did that we’d almost certainly be facing prison time.

pfortuny4y ago

There is no code, that is the problem.

You (or the Transport Administration) do not have access to the training data, the training parameters or anything at all.

It is just a black-box which we are all to trust because "it works, mostly".

In my book, that goes against any notion of admissibility by a government agency.

amelius4y ago

Yes anything or anyone outside of the norm becomes a target.

E.g. wear your hair in a funny way that's never been trained on? You're a target!

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse