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0 pointswindexh8er4y ago0 comments

> I really would love if folks talking about volatile AWS prices would actually give examples.

There was never any mention of "volatile" pricing. Egregious? Yes. Volatile? No. There's a significant difference of meaning with those words.

Here's a perfect example [0] by Corey Quinn.

> So inform us of the uncertainty with AWS.

I didn't mention "uncertainty with AWS". I mentioned that there is no more certainty with AWS than with any other major cloud provider with respect to your statement about public companies who "eventually succumb like every company before them to the realities of reporting growth". And then for some reason you pivoted to your own, personal, AWS bill from there. I'm not exactly following the logic.

> Cloudflare has secret pricing - that's the really annoying thing.

At this point I'm not sure if your comment is even serious. First of all, please elaborate on "secret pricing". Sounds like serious charges we should all be aware of. Maybe it's with the article from 2019 on The Register about domain pricing? That's not exactly in the context of this thread, but please enlighten the masses.

> Seriously, put a porn site up online with cloudflare and see how far "free" gets you.

I'd charge you with the same ask on AWS. You seem to imply the "free" tier, on AWS, will provide proper capabilities to host an adult content site. I have strong doubts about this. The logic of this argument is ill conceived at best. Or is your logic just that you can't do this on Cloudflare and that's the root of your argument on why AWS is better? Again, I'm not exactly following your train of thought.

[0] https://www.lastweekinaws.com/blog/the-compelling-economics-...

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slownews454y ago

Let's be crystal crystal clear here. If I host a high data use video site on AWS, I can calculate what my costs will be. That provides me some certainty with respect to a business plan. Even better, AWS does have a history that is much better than others in terms of pricing stability. This doesn't mean best price.

Can you say the same about cloudflare? No. Can you say the same about oracle? No - they have a miserable history of screwing customers.

AWS is offering clear pricing, cloudflare is not. It's really that simple.

This makes me realize that folks just don't understand the value AWS is providing, and is perhaps why they can charge such insane prices.

People with actual money to spend don't want "free" because they don't believe it's actually free.

In terms of cloudflare, they have something like a negative 60% operating margin. The idea of building a business on a company with a negative 60%+ operating margin is insane, either they will go bust or have to raise prices.

AWS by contrast makes money. Because of this, they can shave a point or two off margin to give (another) price reduction.

1TB per month cloudfront, 2M cloudfront functions etc etc. They are under almost NO financial pressure to raise rates.

Cloudflare is under pressure or will be. With VC money perhaps they will get a longer runway.

The "free" offerings are an old story by now.

windexh8erOP4y ago

It is crystal clear that this comment validates the misunderstanding of how bandwidth is priced in the real world and how, just because Amazon's price model has been reliable, that it must be a viable cost because people pay it. It's unfortunate that the reality you're basing this comment on is so far off base that you've convinced yourself AWS egress fees are somehow "stable". It's also very interesting that you're stating Cloudflare is under some unforeseen "pressure" because they're not turning a profit today. I would gather you're assuming Cloudflare is being soaked by infrastructure costs, which is completely incorrect, as they build out their pivot towards targeting the enterprise market by investing in their field (sales) and continually reinvesting in R&D.

It's also fantastic to read the misconceptions of the "value" AWS is providing. In some cases they do provide a much greater value over cost ratio, but if you've convinced yourself that blindly for AWS proper as a whole - boy do I feel for you the day you realize the economic advantage they manipulate to monopolize the cloud market, and not for the greater good of their customers.

Clear pricing you say? I'll use Corey Quinn (The Duckbill Group [0]) as an example again - his entire liveihood and business runs on the fact that AWS pricing is not even remotely clear. It's laughable that anyone would publicly make that statement at this point in time knowing what we know. Sure, if you're running a static site on S3 for a few users a month I'm sure you've got it covered. For those of us dealing with large scale enterprise everything stated here is, at best, bending the truth and at worst flat out ignorance.

[0] https://www.duckbillgroup.com/

stillicidious4y ago

> his entire liveihood and business runs on the fact that AWS pricing is not even remotely clear

Corey's business exists because prevailing engineering culture encourages pretty much the entire industry to consider optimization as an afterthought, not because engineers can't understand AWS pricing, or interpret a few bar charts in Cost Explorer, and in the face of a deadline, if it's not on the agile board everyone knows it doesn't exist.

Many of Corey's technical posts are around finding sweet technical substitutes for niche use cases, but as I'm sure he'll tell you, 80% of what he does is easily discovered a few clicks away from the AWS home page.

> as they build out their pivot towards targeting the enterprise market

Cloudflare have a solid sales pipeline, but they're a sitting duck if any of the big clouds ever decide to replicate the business model like-for-like. One of the reasons this may not have happened yet is because Cloudflare's whole presentation is consumer oriented, starting with domain configuration management that is hell to version correctly when 20 people have access to the account. Outside some sweet Javascript cold start hacks they basically have no moat, and there are far more situations that could send the company into desperate measures than otherwise.

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slownews454y ago

"It is crystal clear that this comment validates the misunderstanding of how bandwidth is priced in the real world and how"

If you don't think AWS bandwidth pricing is something in the real world I don't know what to say :) AWS is now broken out in Amazon financials - worth a look to see what they are raking in and the margins they are getting in the real world :)

"Clear pricing you say? I'll use Corey Quinn (The Duckbill Group [0]) as an example again"

His entire business depends on the fact that AWS pricing is clear and public. For a service like cloudflare (ie, call for pricing / dealing with a salesperson trying to figure out how much they can squeeze you for on upfront or on renewal) this type of service is much harder.

In short, if your bill is too high, you can talk to someone like Corey and they can probably help you bring it down.

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slownews454y ago

Can you say the same about cloudflare? No. Can you say the same about oracle? No - they have a miserable history of screwing customers.

AWS is offering clear pricing, cloudflare is not. It's really that simple.

This makes me realize that folks just don't understand the value AWS is providing, and is perhaps why they can charge such insane prices.

People with actual money to spend don't want "free" because they don't believe it's actually free.

AWS by contrast makes money. Because of this, they can shave a point or two off margin to give (another) price reduction.

1TB per month cloudfront, 2M cloudfront functions etc etc. They are under almost NO financial pressure to raise rates.

Cloudflare is under pressure or will be. With VC money perhaps they will get a longer runway.

The "free" offerings are an old story by now.

windexh8erOP4y ago

[0] https://www.duckbillgroup.com/

stillicidious4y ago

> his entire liveihood and business runs on the fact that AWS pricing is not even remotely clear

> as they build out their pivot towards targeting the enterprise market

1 more reply

slownews454y ago

"It is crystal clear that this comment validates the misunderstanding of how bandwidth is priced in the real world and how"

"Clear pricing you say? I'll use Corey Quinn (The Duckbill Group [0]) as an example again"

In short, if your bill is too high, you can talk to someone like Corey and they can probably help you bring it down.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse