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0 pointsjl27184y ago0 comments

I think of the sea of knowledge as a bunch of floating turds at first sight, which are intentionally provocative and noxious but easy to spot, mostly water below, which is the context of common knowledge and beliefs, which may be the unstated assumption of the material, and then nuggets of gold below, which are hard to find because they are repressed for some reason, legal, social, safety, or otherwise, and therefore potentially valuable to a certain set of objectives. But both turds and gold nuggets face the same types of moderation pressure by their disruptive nature.

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cogman104y ago

> But both turds and gold nuggets face the same types of moderation pressure by their disruptive nature.

Again, I fundamentally disagree. You are being vague and overly general on the sort of moderation pressure. The actual banned content on most social media platforms, if we bring it out of context, ends up things like CP and Nazis. If those are the "disruptive ideas" we need to explore truth, then I'm pretty ok never finding it.

On almost every social media site (except, ironically, "free speech" platforms) there is a space to discuss everything from communism to anarchy. Crystal healing to quantum physics. Ghosts to exoplanets. Nihilism to Scientology.

The actual set of banned discussion is pretty much all centered around speech that directly leads to harm.

The reason I keep bringing it back to "what is actually banned" is because when you get right down the actual banned conversations, they are both few and not really worth discussing for "truth".

Name a banned "golden nugget" conversation. You say there is censorship, so list it. Tell me what sort of deep conversation or truth we can't know because we stop Nazis from using the N word.

jl2718OP4y ago

“Tell me something that will get you banned” Ummm… no.

I can tell you ‘about’ something that would. For instance, I would get banned for doxing you. The reason why I would get banned is that the information would be very valuable to someone that the forum is not interested in helping. Some banned conversation includes realities that explain what is going on in the world in a way that can greatly benefit a potential investor, or equivalently, greatly misguide them. Given that there is no way to discern between the two, both are banned.

I have one personal example that I am willing to share. I learned a tremendous amount of helpful information about birth practices and infant care from one of these ‘extreme free speech’ platforms. An example is cord clamping. The debate of this topic was extremely irreverent and ad-hominem, but it was easy to see that logic and objective results clearly favored one side, regardless of the civility with which this information was presented. Sadly, I don’t believe the information would have been effectively communicated in its most polite form, because it was clearly out there for all to see for a very long time without any improvement to common practice. The problem is that a reasonable person must ask why experts would ignore such information before accepting alternative possibilities, and this necessarily leads to a very dark rabbit-hole showing politically-incorrect evidence of extreme dysfunction within their profession. This became broadly applicable to me personally. My OB/GYN was objectively harmful to my baby, my pediatrician and nurses were wonderful, and this was all much less confusing given that understanding.

cogman104y ago

> I would get banned for doxing you

Ok, and how would doxing me be something that would further finding truth? That's not an example of a productive conversation limited because of anti-free speech.

> An example is cord clamping.

Nothing in your example is a conversation that couldn't be had on "anti-free speech" platforms.

What you've failed to give me is an example or description of communication that cannot be had on non-free speech platforms that isn't itself a turd.

Unless your doxxing example was to say "Hey, this researcher that lives on 123 maple street is where clamping came from and we clearly can't trust people from maple street because that's were bad people are from".

That, in and of itself, doesn't seem like a good way to go about discovering truth.

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cogman104y ago

> But both turds and gold nuggets face the same types of moderation pressure by their disruptive nature.

The actual set of banned discussion is pretty much all centered around speech that directly leads to harm.

The reason I keep bringing it back to "what is actually banned" is because when you get right down the actual banned conversations, they are both few and not really worth discussing for "truth".

Name a banned "golden nugget" conversation. You say there is censorship, so list it. Tell me what sort of deep conversation or truth we can't know because we stop Nazis from using the N word.

jl2718OP4y ago

“Tell me something that will get you banned” Ummm… no.

cogman104y ago

> I would get banned for doxing you

Ok, and how would doxing me be something that would further finding truth? That's not an example of a productive conversation limited because of anti-free speech.

> An example is cord clamping.

Nothing in your example is a conversation that couldn't be had on "anti-free speech" platforms.

What you've failed to give me is an example or description of communication that cannot be had on non-free speech platforms that isn't itself a turd.

That, in and of itself, doesn't seem like a good way to go about discovering truth.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse