Why Postfix is called Postfix and IBM secure mailer (opens in new tab)

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80 pointsgurrone3y ago24 comments

24 comments

How many greybeards here remember the O'reilly Sendmail bat book[1]? I built an ISP off of deciphering cryptic sendmail.cf parameters from it. This is what the "fix" in Postfix aims to "fix".

(Although the Postfix config files are no walk in the park either.)

[1] https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/sendmail-4th-edition/97...

slillibri3y ago

But you don’t need to know cryptic sendmail.cf parameters, you can just use m4 macros which are totally not cryptic at all.

kstrauser3y ago

For the benefit of those fortunate enough to have never had to configure that beast, you can find any number of terrifying examples. Here's one: https://tldp.org/LDP/nag2/x14661.html#X-087-2-SENDMAIL.MC.UU...

From that, we see

  LOCAL_NET_CONFIG
  # This rule ensures that all local mail is delivered using the
  # smtp transport, everything else will go via the smart host.
  R$* < @ $* .$m. > $* $#smtp $@ $2.$m. $: $1 < @ $2.$m. > $3
  dnl

Clear as day, right?

1 more reply

vlowther3y ago

You can now. That was not always the cas e, and that is one of many reasons I used postfix instead of sendmail back in the day.

rodgerd3y ago

Poe's Law in full effect.

INTPenis3y ago

You made an ISP, this guy made Turtle Race[1]. What was that about Postfix being complex? ;)

1. https://www.linusakesson.net/programming/sendmail/index.php

geocrasher3y ago

A neat bit of history. Just the name Postfix has always conjured up in mind that it was fixing a problem. And anybody who's ever used Sendmail knows which problem it was fixing :D There's also qmail, but we don't discuss that in good company.

Spooky233y ago

This was a thing at IBM at that time. I remember eyerolling at a new employer where we per paying a few thousand dollars per server from "IBM-SSH".

IBM-SSH consistent of some IBM guy replacing every instance of "OpenSSH" with "IBM-SSH". One of the interns noticed with one release the find replace hit the man pages.

jchook3y ago

I always thought of “postfix” as in prefix, infix, and postfix operators[1].

Curious if this was an intentional pun.

1. https://panda.ime.usp.br/pythonds/static/pythonds_pt/02-EDBa...

smcl3y ago

> "post" was a different word for "mail",

this is clear

> and "fix" was for Sendmail

this is unclear. I don't know how you get "fix" from "Sendmail"

Bootvis3y ago

Sendmail was the problem, Postfix was the fix.

smcl3y ago

Ah nice, so it's more like:

> "post" was a different word for "mail", and [the application was itself a] "fix" ... for Sendmail

locusofself3y ago

I thought it was a play on "pustefix" which is the name of a German bear that is on these bubbles:

https://www.google.com/search?q=german+bubbles+bear&rlz=1C1C...

fomine33y ago

Off topic: techmonitor.ai seems to good source for ancient tech news (like Google books but plaintext). Fun to digging. Pick random news: https://techmonitor.ai/technology/att_unveils_43_mips_3b4000...

tyingq3y ago

Interesting contrast where the "post" in Postgres is there for the other meaning of post.

tptacek3y ago

It wasn't originally called Postfix; it was VMailer.

ossusermivami3y ago

ah the good old days, when a bunch of MTA was coming out (exim, vmail, qmail and postfix) to replace sendmail cf and m4 atrocities.

It's interesting to see that the most popular who came out as "winner" has been postfix,

altho these days most people would setup a relay with msmtp going to a closed source provider than full fledged postfix/cyrus service

kiwijamo3y ago

I'm a Postfix guy myself, but I swear I read somewhere that Exim was more popular?

Drybones3y ago

Yes and no. It’s most likely because exim is the mail manager for cPanel which is still very popular. IMO any server that is non-cPanel with a mail server is most likely using Postfix.

locusofself3y ago

Postfix is good software, but I do not miss managing email servers.

2ion3y ago

As a hobby mail everything is fun (from MUAs to sieve). If it needs to be reliable it's not. Don't miss self-hosting my email service either ("has the response to my application arrived or did I fail to receive it").

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

24 comments

_nickwhite3y ago

How many greybeards here remember the O'reilly Sendmail bat book[1]? I built an ISP off of deciphering cryptic sendmail.cf parameters from it. This is what the "fix" in Postfix aims to "fix".

(Although the Postfix config files are no walk in the park either.)

[1] https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/sendmail-4th-edition/97...

slillibri3y ago

But you don’t need to know cryptic sendmail.cf parameters, you can just use m4 macros which are totally not cryptic at all.

kstrauser3y ago

From that, we see

  LOCAL_NET_CONFIG
  # This rule ensures that all local mail is delivered using the
  # smtp transport, everything else will go via the smart host.
  R$* < @ $* .$m. > $* $#smtp $@ $2.$m. $: $1 < @ $2.$m. > $3
  dnl

Clear as day, right?

1 more reply

vlowther3y ago

You can now. That was not always the cas e, and that is one of many reasons I used postfix instead of sendmail back in the day.

rodgerd3y ago

Poe's Law in full effect.

INTPenis3y ago

You made an ISP, this guy made Turtle Race[1]. What was that about Postfix being complex? ;)

1. https://www.linusakesson.net/programming/sendmail/index.php

geocrasher3y ago

Spooky233y ago

This was a thing at IBM at that time. I remember eyerolling at a new employer where we per paying a few thousand dollars per server from "IBM-SSH".

IBM-SSH consistent of some IBM guy replacing every instance of "OpenSSH" with "IBM-SSH". One of the interns noticed with one release the find replace hit the man pages.

jchook3y ago

I always thought of “postfix” as in prefix, infix, and postfix operators[1].

Curious if this was an intentional pun.

1. https://panda.ime.usp.br/pythonds/static/pythonds_pt/02-EDBa...

smcl3y ago

> "post" was a different word for "mail",

this is clear

> and "fix" was for Sendmail

this is unclear. I don't know how you get "fix" from "Sendmail"

Bootvis3y ago

Sendmail was the problem, Postfix was the fix.

smcl3y ago

Ah nice, so it's more like:

> "post" was a different word for "mail", and [the application was itself a] "fix" ... for Sendmail

locusofself3y ago

I thought it was a play on "pustefix" which is the name of a German bear that is on these bubbles:

https://www.google.com/search?q=german+bubbles+bear&rlz=1C1C...

fomine33y ago

tyingq3y ago

Interesting contrast where the "post" in Postgres is there for the other meaning of post.

tptacek3y ago

It wasn't originally called Postfix; it was VMailer.

ossusermivami3y ago

ah the good old days, when a bunch of MTA was coming out (exim, vmail, qmail and postfix) to replace sendmail cf and m4 atrocities.

It's interesting to see that the most popular who came out as "winner" has been postfix,

altho these days most people would setup a relay with msmtp going to a closed source provider than full fledged postfix/cyrus service

kiwijamo3y ago

I'm a Postfix guy myself, but I swear I read somewhere that Exim was more popular?

Drybones3y ago

Yes and no. It’s most likely because exim is the mail manager for cPanel which is still very popular. IMO any server that is non-cPanel with a mail server is most likely using Postfix.

locusofself3y ago

Postfix is good software, but I do not miss managing email servers.

2ion3y ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse