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0 pointstravisathougies3y ago0 comments

In the United states, including in Mississippi, which started this case that went to the Supreme court, there is no government intervention at all in your approval to have an abortion. If you're past fifteen weeks and meet the criteria, your abortion is none of the government's business. That is significantly more progressive than Europe, and any other take is not in good faith.

> Ron DeSantis signed a law banning abortion after 15 weeks "without exemptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.

You are deliberately misrepresenting the law and what I said about it. Your own article says:

> The bill, which goes into effect July 1, does allow exemptions in cases where a pregnancy is "serious risk" to the mother or a fatal fetal abnormality is detected if two physicians confirm the diagnosis in writing.

And Germany has no automatic exception for rape after fifteen weeks. It's up to the government. There is no government involvement in getting abortion approval in Florida. That makes florida more progressive.

In fact, in Germany, abortion is illegal at all stages, just merely decriminalized. So again, Florida et al are more progressive. I don't understand why we have to do this pointless thing where we just pretend America is less libertine than all of Europe. In fact in Germany, their courts have ruled that unborn fetuses are innately entitled to human rights. The only reason abortion is allowed is because the courts have said it's okay for the legislature to not punish this kind of murder (that's what the German courts say it is, not my opinion)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Germany

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dathinab3y ago

You are to focused on the text of law, instead of the actual implications for the person needing a abortion.

If you look at the actual law: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/BJNR001270871.html#B...

It boils down to (per paragraph):

(1) if you follow the right procedure (consulting, 3 days waiting then decision, done by doctor, no more then 12 weeks) it basically doesn't count as a crime (practically it's in a semi state between crime and not crime due to the constitutional court ruling you mentioned, it's anyway clear cut something you can not be convicted/pursed for, which is all that matters).

(2) if there are serve medical issues abortion is not against the law. This paragraph can theoretically apply to some cases of rape victims as it does explicitly mention mental medical issues/damage additional to physical issues.

(3) explicitly/automatically makes 2 apply to rape victims through only up to 12 weeks (since getting pregnant, not since the last period). Doesn't mean it can't apply post 12 weeks.

(4) the person having the aborting can not be punished if the abortion was done by a doctor and no more then 22 weeks passed (the doctor might be punished thou), if the person was pressured into it the judge can decide to not punish even if they normally would need to.

So what does that mean

- no the government is not involved, you never have to ask the government, only doctors

- yes post 12week there is no automatic exception, but you still do not need to ask the government a doctor is enough

- through theoretically a court case could be pushed to decide if the decision of the doctor was correct and paragraph 2 does apply to a rape victim in a post 12 week abortion so the best way to avoid that is to make sure its very clear that it's the case before doing the abortion, the lead to the common practice of getting two doctors to agree with the abortion (one of which isn't involved in the abortion in any other way). Even better (but not required!) would be to get the agreement of a state doctor (which is I guess where the idea of needing government approval comes from). Through saying a "state doctor" is part of the government is very very misleading, technically true trough. But their role is more like "doctors the government believes are competent and trust". I.e. their medical decisions are still independent from the government.

And sure this can be improved by a lot.

But then at least harassment of people going for a abortion is neither common nor tolerated in Germany (but seems to be common in parts of the US). Similar there is no in general no "attack" against doctors which do abortions, nodded of abortions as reasonable in Germany. Which from what I have heard happens in some US states often enough to be called systematic.

In the end for any conclusion I guess you would need to speak with people having gone through abortions (in various contexts/circumstances/US states/German states etc.).

PS: Depending on when you start counting the 12 weeks here might also be referred to as 14 weeks.

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