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0 pointsseibelj3y ago0 comments

The anecdotes from supposedly-superior socialized medical systems in Europe always throw cold water on USA leftist dreams. The left here has been saying it’s a utopia for a fraction of the cost for decades. The reality is so much more complex.

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Symbiote3y ago

I doubt you'll see this, but the anecdote is untrue: an ambulance is free in the UK.

_vbnz3y ago

I mean, I'm a leftist in the EU, it's just that the system isn't working due to cuts and mismanagement, and unfortunately the "left-wing" parties here are more concerned with identity politics and policies benefiting the lumpen rather than the proletariat (mass immigration, social housing for criminals, etc.).

I support universal healthcare, but I think a lot of Americans don't appreciate the benefits they get from the sheer wealth of the USA. Salaries are so much higher, and health insurance covers much more at good companies, etc.

seibeljOP3y ago

Europe pays ~10% of GDP to healthcare and you say it isn’t enough money “due to cuts”.

USA pays ~20% of GDP and the left says it’s “too much” when compared to Europe.

How much would you expect society to pay? Clearly it’s less than 20%, as that’s society being robbed, and more than 10%, as that’s healthcare being cheated. What is the correct percent?

lozenge3y ago

Healthcare spending of the UK is at the OECD median and is just 80% of the EU15 median. The UK also has an aging population which means its spending needs to drift upwards over time.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...

nivenkos3y ago

I'd rather it be closer to 20% for sure. Healthcare is incredibly important.

But tax mismanagement is a huge issue, my home country and my resident country have sent billions of dollars to Ukraine for example whilst we still don't have enough housing, have people going to food banks, etc.

Same for accepting tens of millions of refugees and so on.

tomtheelder3y ago

I mean I could tell almost the exact same anecdote from when I had to have my appendix out in the US. The key difference is that I ended up with a fucking insane bill to pay at the end of all of it.

Plus the NHS was better historically. The conservatives have been playing starve the beast with it, and Labor is about as impotent as the Dems are in the US.

Either way they still spend less and have better outcomes, so that part at least isn't very complex.

seibeljOP3y ago

Is it at-all possible that either

1) it isn’t the conservatives but a larger systemic issue

2) healthcare is, like all services, a market-based system where the highest-skilled gravitate towards the private sector, the highest-wealth gravitate to the private sector, and the poor / poorly skilled / the selfless use the socialized system that can never serve the needs of all the people at a below-market cost?

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Symbiote3y ago

I doubt you'll see this, but the anecdote is untrue: an ambulance is free in the UK.

_vbnz3y ago

seibeljOP3y ago

Europe pays ~10% of GDP to healthcare and you say it isn’t enough money “due to cuts”.

USA pays ~20% of GDP and the left says it’s “too much” when compared to Europe.

How much would you expect society to pay? Clearly it’s less than 20%, as that’s society being robbed, and more than 10%, as that’s healthcare being cheated. What is the correct percent?

lozenge3y ago

Healthcare spending of the UK is at the OECD median and is just 80% of the EU15 median. The UK also has an aging population which means its spending needs to drift upwards over time.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...

nivenkos3y ago

I'd rather it be closer to 20% for sure. Healthcare is incredibly important.

Same for accepting tens of millions of refugees and so on.

tomtheelder3y ago

I mean I could tell almost the exact same anecdote from when I had to have my appendix out in the US. The key difference is that I ended up with a fucking insane bill to pay at the end of all of it.

Plus the NHS was better historically. The conservatives have been playing starve the beast with it, and Labor is about as impotent as the Dems are in the US.

Either way they still spend less and have better outcomes, so that part at least isn't very complex.

seibeljOP3y ago

Is it at-all possible that either

1) it isn’t the conservatives but a larger systemic issue

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse