"Ruby isn't slow. If anyone tells you PHP is faster than Ruby, tell them: 'Benchmark it.'" (opens in new tab)

(skitch.com)

19 pointspius17y ago30 comments

30 comments

Maybe I'm slow but it seems to me that the language is never the bottleneck for web applications. It seems to me that the bottleneck is in the db which is language agnostic for all general purposes.

And anything that is slow with just Ruby can be solved by throwing money at it.

jlouis17y ago

Thoughtful and correct IMO. Caching is much more important to get right than backend-speed. Number crunching capability does not matter that much for web applications. And you can always outsource the tough calculations to languages better suited for it: ML, Common Lisp, C++, C, etc.

jamongkad17y ago

True I think another bottleneck would be the web server serving the pages. Albeit a distant one as compared to the DB. What I don't get here is what is everyone's obsession with speed and shootout contests. What gives? I think we as developers have to focus on the bigger picture.

To build apps that our users will love.

No matter the language, framework, or whatever. If we miss this point which is a very crucial point for that matter. Then all of our optimizations are for nothing.

jacobbijani17y ago

Oh, god. How many times does this point need to be made? Yeah, cool. The compiler is fast.

Probably 1% of all websites on the internet ever manage to get enough traffic to make the language matter, right?

kaens17y ago

To be frank, at this point in time when I'm developing for the web, just about the only thing I care about when it comes to what language I'm using is that it's not PHP.

I understand why people use PHP, but as someone who has a decent amount of experience with a variety of languages, I really want a language that's designed sanely, especially for things like web-(sites|apps). I'll gladly take a hit on the language-speed side, or on the ease-of-finding-hosting side for the sake of not having to put up with PHPs craziness.

Why? For just the reason you pointed out - the vast majority of websites don't get enough traffic to make the language matter. I'd imagine that things like learning how to configure apache and/or a caching tool like memcached would handle most of the performance bottleneck on a site that did get that level of traffic.

Seriously - if a language is "fast" enough to allow the creation of responsive GUI apps, it's "fast" enough for web-apps.

neovive17y ago

PHP might not be the most elegant in the world, but for a small- to mid-size web application, using a solid PHP5 framework (like KohanaPHP) along with a PHP accelerator and you have an easy-to-use and easy-to-deploy application.

1 more reply

sfamiliar17y ago

quite a few newcomers come to rails and think it's slow, because they're 'doin it wrong'. every framework's speed is really about your deployment setup. running mongrel can be slow, especially if you're load-testing a single mongrel instance. multiple instances can be slow if they're connecting to a slow database and serving static files.

put nginx in front of thin, start caching frequently used objects, and slice up your database and suddenly speed isn't a problem. php has the (perceived) advantage of running compiled in an apache module, typically. but it's a perception -- you have to do a little more tuning with your rails deployment to make it scream, but make no mistake, it can scream, even under heavy load, and without a huge server farm, at least up to 500K pages/day. i know that number because i've served it. quickly.

in radiant. (gasp! yes, with some caching.)

with one database.

it's a lesson i learned working with tomcat back in the day: defaults suck. learn your framework, learn your app server, pick the Right Thing. it's all about application tuning and app-server choice, and that goes for every language and platform in existence.

piusOP17y ago

The headline is a quotation from Yehuda Katz's MerbCamp closing keynote. See the summary of the keynote here at the bottom of this link:

http://rubypond.com/articles/2008/10/12/merbcamp---day-2/

rlachenal17y ago

Translate please -

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all...

silentbicycle17y ago

The white bars are time, the black bars are memory usage. Ergo, in most cases, PHP is running 2-5x faster than Ruby, but using about 3x as much memory.

jlouis17y ago

Memory usage can probably be attributed to how PHP manages memory (hint: It /almost/ doesn't).

1 more reply

igouy17y ago

> in most cases

In 9/15 cases PHP is >= 2x faster In 6/15 cases PHP uses less memory

1 more reply

igouy17y ago

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/faq.php#mirrorcharts

igouy17y ago

What don't you understand?

zinxq17y ago

If you're comparing something to PHP's speed, you've already lost.

drawkbox17y ago

...and Python is still 3x faster than PHP and Ruby without psyco..

omouse17y ago

You can also say "Smalltalk isn't slow" or "Lisp isn't slow", but you won't see anyone run towards either of them...

tptacek17y ago

Unlike Ruby.

omouse17y ago

Worse is better as they say.

igouy17y ago

> but you won't see anyone run towards either of them...

Avi Bryant did.

http://www.seaside.st/

markbao17y ago

Stats for Rails?

piusOP17y ago

"Next was comparing Merb against other ruby options. Returning directly from the Merb router kills everything, but there aren’t many scenarios you could use that. Sinatra is just slightly faster than returning from the Merb controller, which both outperform Rails by a 3-4x. Rails itself still kills CakePHP."

markbao17y ago

oh, crap.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

30 comments

charlesju17y ago

Maybe I'm slow but it seems to me that the language is never the bottleneck for web applications. It seems to me that the bottleneck is in the db which is language agnostic for all general purposes.

And anything that is slow with just Ruby can be solved by throwing money at it.

jlouis17y ago

jamongkad17y ago

To build apps that our users will love.

No matter the language, framework, or whatever. If we miss this point which is a very crucial point for that matter. Then all of our optimizations are for nothing.

jacobbijani17y ago

Oh, god. How many times does this point need to be made? Yeah, cool. The compiler is fast.

Probably 1% of all websites on the internet ever manage to get enough traffic to make the language matter, right?

kaens17y ago

To be frank, at this point in time when I'm developing for the web, just about the only thing I care about when it comes to what language I'm using is that it's not PHP.

Seriously - if a language is "fast" enough to allow the creation of responsive GUI apps, it's "fast" enough for web-apps.

neovive17y ago

1 more reply

sfamiliar17y ago

in radiant. (gasp! yes, with some caching.)

with one database.

piusOP17y ago

The headline is a quotation from Yehuda Katz's MerbCamp closing keynote. See the summary of the keynote here at the bottom of this link:

http://rubypond.com/articles/2008/10/12/merbcamp---day-2/

rlachenal17y ago

Translate please -

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all...

silentbicycle17y ago

The white bars are time, the black bars are memory usage. Ergo, in most cases, PHP is running 2-5x faster than Ruby, but using about 3x as much memory.

jlouis17y ago

Memory usage can probably be attributed to how PHP manages memory (hint: It /almost/ doesn't).

1 more reply

igouy17y ago

> in most cases

In 9/15 cases PHP is >= 2x faster In 6/15 cases PHP uses less memory

1 more reply

igouy17y ago

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/faq.php#mirrorcharts

igouy17y ago

What don't you understand?

zinxq17y ago