undefined | Better HN

0 pointsOrangeMonkey3y ago0 comments

To those who espouse the idea that comments should be filtered for the greater good, I say 'You first.'

There was a time period when the left was for free speech and the right was wanting to constrain it. Maybe its just a giant pendulum - there is no right/left difference when it comes to free speech - everyone wants to censor / filter the speech of the opposite side.

If things come in cycles, then I expect the right to take over more and more (see the european shift) and then for them to slowly become in favor of censorship. Maybe then - if we are lucky - the left will remember that censorship is always the enemy even if it helps them currently.

0 comments

crummy3y ago

> To those who espouse the idea that comments should be filtered for the greater good, I say 'You first.'

that's part of the reason why I come to HN, for well-moderated (or "censored" if you prefer) discussions on tech

vogt3y ago

This is truly one of the best moderated places on the internet IMO, and one of the only places after 20 years of posting on message boards that I can go without hurtling toward a flame war every time I log on nowadays. Part of it is, I'm opinionated and I think probably enjoy arguing more than might be reasonable sometimes. Another part though is that the moderation quality is so high here and so low on places like Reddit + Twitter. My 2 pence.

Probably the lack of ability to advertise here the way you are encouraged to do on Twitter/FB/IG/Reddit (because they need that revenue) factors in as well.

slavik813y ago

One of the things I appreciate about HN is that I can still read the posts that are removed (with showdead enabled).

I don't care much about my freedom to speak. My voice will never be a significant influence on the world anyway. What I care about is my freedom to listen. I value the freedom to review all the evidence and all the arguments then draw my own conclusions.

I don't often want to read dead comments. They are mostly low quality and deserve their status. Nevertheless, showdead is sometimes quite useful and the transparency gives me more faith in the moderation.

least3y ago

> everyone wants to censor / filter the speech of the opposite side.

This is mostly because the left/right spectrum is too nebulous to be genuinely useful at understanding most people's values, which tend to be more nuanced than a one dimensional spectrum allows for. People that want to censor/filter speech are authoritarians. Nothing about authoritarianism uniquely binds it to the left or the right.

bergenty3y ago

The right is still for censorship, but selectively just for the things they want censored. There’s no pendulum, just an explosion in hypocrisy. The left used to rely on goodwill and ethical human behavior to do their “censorship” for them, but we’ve lost that at this point and people don’t care if they’re perceived as evil anymore because they have a large enough mutual admiration club now.

sangnoir3y ago

> There was a time period when the left was for free speech and the right was wanting to constrain it.

When was this - and can you give examples of left and right acting the way you described in the past?

letterlib3y ago

There are a lot of examples of this and the left has had some truly great advocates for free speech. In terms of time period, the Red Scare and Mccarthyism was a time when the left was being heavily censored by the right. The Civil Rights movements as well with MLK during the 1960s and then Frank Kameny in the 1970s trying to get rights for gays.

Other leftist advocates for free speech include Obama, Elenor Roosevelt, and Aryeh Neier are brilliant examples.

sangnoir3y ago

What counts as "free speech" tends to be subjective: was MLK pro-free-speech or against it? That depends on whose speech you're considering. I can give even earlier counter-examples with left/right flipped (e.g. abolitionist literature in the south).

My initial point wasn't that it never happened, only to show there were never deliberate, strategic positions on free speech by the left or right- only messy tactical circumstances. Not long before McCarthyism was Japanese internment by a giant of the left: FDR.

Obama famously called someone a "jack-ass" after they exercised their free speech on-stage. He also railed against the Citizens United ruling. Having a binary "for/against free speech" is reductive.

3 more replies

annowiki3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Movement

Mario's "Operation of the Machine" speech is pretty good.

Also worth noting, often these groups were not quite as egalitarian as they're thought to be. SDS for instance had quite a bit of sexism in its operations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_a_Democratic_Soci...

I have no position on this debate, I just thought you'd want a little context.

mixmastamyk3y ago

Fortunately there are other dimensions.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

crummy3y ago

> To those who espouse the idea that comments should be filtered for the greater good, I say 'You first.'

that's part of the reason why I come to HN, for well-moderated (or "censored" if you prefer) discussions on tech

vogt3y ago

Probably the lack of ability to advertise here the way you are encouraged to do on Twitter/FB/IG/Reddit (because they need that revenue) factors in as well.

slavik813y ago

One of the things I appreciate about HN is that I can still read the posts that are removed (with showdead enabled).

least3y ago

> everyone wants to censor / filter the speech of the opposite side.

bergenty3y ago

sangnoir3y ago

> There was a time period when the left was for free speech and the right was wanting to constrain it.

When was this - and can you give examples of left and right acting the way you described in the past?

letterlib3y ago

Other leftist advocates for free speech include Obama, Elenor Roosevelt, and Aryeh Neier are brilliant examples.

sangnoir3y ago

Obama famously called someone a "jack-ass" after they exercised their free speech on-stage. He also railed against the Citizens United ruling. Having a binary "for/against free speech" is reductive.

3 more replies

annowiki3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Movement

Mario's "Operation of the Machine" speech is pretty good.

I have no position on this debate, I just thought you'd want a little context.

mixmastamyk3y ago

Fortunately there are other dimensions.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse