CEOs at Disney and Starbucks demand that workers start returning to the office (opens in new tab)

(finance.yahoo.com)

23 pointsdekimir3y ago35 comments

35 comments

Missing in a lot of discussion about “return to office” is that someone (maybe these same CEOs) had made offices completely intolerable even before the pandemic by introducing the “open plan” office layout where you can’t work because the constant noise makes it impossible and you have no personal space and no privacy.

Small wonder workers don’t want to return to the office when they’re treated like chickens in an industrial henhouse there.

janalsncm3y ago

Freakonomics had an interesting podcast on the open office predating the pandemic [1]. I like my current office, we have an open office but plenty of more private areas where I can think.

[1] https://freakonomics.com/podcast/yes-the-open-office-is-terr...

bluedino3y ago

I don't know about Starbucks, but there's plenty of resentment among manufacturing workers that their white-collar counterparts get to sit at home

ergocoder3y ago

White-collar counterparts sitting at home = much less traffic for the manufacturing workers ...

bluedino3y ago

They typically commute during different times

gedy3y ago

A lot of people who are envious of WFH imagine it's lounging around watching Netflix, and likely would not be able to handle the actual work though.

bitlax3y ago

How does the working environment of the white-collar employees affect the working environment of the blue-collar employees in this case?

intunderflow3y ago

It doesn't, it's just standard crab-bucket mentality

lapcat3y ago

Is this meant to be an argument against remote work? If so, it's a strange one.

Some working conditions are better than others. Some jobs are better than others. Some jobs pay more than others, often a lot more. Should everyone who makes more money than manufacturing workers take a pay cut? Alternatively, should everyone who makes less money than manufacturing workers get a pay raise?

Inequality is a fact of capitalism. I'm not saying whether capitalism is good or bad, but if you have any resentment, it ought to be against the system in which inequality is inherent. Anyway, given this system, I see nothing wrong with workers seeking the best working conditions possible for themselves.

cplusplusfellow3y ago

Workers seeking the best possible conditions for themselves can extend to white collar workers desiring to work from home.

If I’ve got to work a dozen or more weekends a year, and 50 nights a year when I can only deploy during non business hours (until 9pm), then by god I don’t need to suffer a commute in an expensive city to sit through my coworkers sharing YouTube videos and dad jokes nonstop.

1 more reply

dlkf3y ago

It’s not an argument, it’s just a positive claim. You’ve projected a bunch of normative angles on to it, but there are none.

The more interesting follow up questions are to what degree is this true, how do we know, and do we think this is a factor in back-to-office mandates.

1 more reply

dekimirOP3y ago

"There is simply no way that true collective creativity can be consistently generated in not-so-splendid isolation.”

"I think every successful CEO, including myself, is tired of all the whining"

jmathai3y ago

From the article - “While an agreement had been reached last year to work one to two days per week in the office, badge swipes indicated many employees “are not meeting their minimum promise,””

Reminded me of this quote from Office Space.

“Look, we want you to express yourself, okay? Now if you feel that the bare minimum is enough, then okay. But some people choose to wear more and we encourage that, okay? You do want to express yourself, don't you?”

I mean, employers are free to make whatever policies they want and employees are free to stay or leave. I think things have their own way of normalizing.

listenallyall3y ago

But these employees aren't meeting the bare minimum, which they apparently agreed to (as opposed to it being dictated to them).

Not sure you really understand the Office Space scene, it's entirely different. It's not funny if Jennifer Aniston was wearing only 3 pieces of flair and she was being reprimanded for not meeting the minimum. The humor comes from the fact that she was meeting the minimum of 15 (which she obviously thought was way too much), and the boss was still making her feel guilty about it.

voakbasda3y ago

Coerced into agreeing, perhaps. I cannot pretend for a moment that the playing field is level here.

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andrei_says_3y ago

> employees are free to stay or leave

“Free” as in “free to live without health insurance, shelter, food, or water”

I am not sure I would call that “free”

chii3y ago

The assumption is they find another job (presumably, with similar salary/benefits), not that they quit working altogether.

bitsavers3y ago

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/11/apple-and-meta-dropped-off-g... After several delays due to Covid, Apple hammered down on their return to office plans, requiring employees to be in the office three days a week effective Sept. 5, 2022.

cratermoon3y ago

Soon: CEOs at Disney and Starbucks struggle with understaffing, inability to attract workers

dekimirOP3y ago

I know, right? I thought COVID proved definitively that remote work is not just possible but equal to in-office work. I really want to understand the counterarguments, but all I see is oblique assertions like "true creativity requires body language." I'm keeping an open mind, and I acknowledge that in-person chat features much higher comm bandwidth than video chat, but I'd like to see a well-reasoned explanation of what exactly a business loses by allowing its employees the freedom to manage their time and workstation setup.

cratermoon3y ago

I've been working from home since March of 2020. I mostly like it, but I would be willing to go in to an office for team meetings now and then. After almost three years, I have definitely come to see and desire some in-person interactions. But for CEOs to just demand that people be in the office for some arbitrary number of days per week on a vague assertion stinks. It also assumes that everyone's personality and working style matches the CEOs idea of employee productivity.

2 more replies

squokko3y ago

> I thought COVID proved definitively that remote work is not just possible but equal to in-office work.

That's an extremely strong claim. How do you think COVID proved it "definitively"?

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squokko3y ago

Doubtful that people are going to start mass abandoning their jobs in a layoff wave.

raincom3y ago

That depends on the unemployment rate of white collar workers.

ergocoder3y ago

In the current market with tons of layoffs? not soon.

matt-attack3y ago

Well for Disney in particular, I see this as just a logical first move before layoffs. If you can drive a good bunch of employees to quit, then that's all the fewer layoffs you need to perform in the coming months.

dekimirOP3y ago

Doesn't that ensure that the most desirable employees leave and the least desirable cling on?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

35 comments

dopylitty3y ago

Small wonder workers don’t want to return to the office when they’re treated like chickens in an industrial henhouse there.

janalsncm3y ago

Freakonomics had an interesting podcast on the open office predating the pandemic [1]. I like my current office, we have an open office but plenty of more private areas where I can think.

[1] https://freakonomics.com/podcast/yes-the-open-office-is-terr...

bluedino3y ago

I don't know about Starbucks, but there's plenty of resentment among manufacturing workers that their white-collar counterparts get to sit at home

ergocoder3y ago

White-collar counterparts sitting at home = much less traffic for the manufacturing workers ...

bluedino3y ago

They typically commute during different times

gedy3y ago

A lot of people who are envious of WFH imagine it's lounging around watching Netflix, and likely would not be able to handle the actual work though.

bitlax3y ago

How does the working environment of the white-collar employees affect the working environment of the blue-collar employees in this case?

intunderflow3y ago

It doesn't, it's just standard crab-bucket mentality

lapcat3y ago

Is this meant to be an argument against remote work? If so, it's a strange one.

cplusplusfellow3y ago

Workers seeking the best possible conditions for themselves can extend to white collar workers desiring to work from home.

1 more reply

dlkf3y ago

It’s not an argument, it’s just a positive claim. You’ve projected a bunch of normative angles on to it, but there are none.

The more interesting follow up questions are to what degree is this true, how do we know, and do we think this is a factor in back-to-office mandates.

1 more reply

dekimirOP3y ago

"There is simply no way that true collective creativity can be consistently generated in not-so-splendid isolation.”

"I think every successful CEO, including myself, is tired of all the whining"

jmathai3y ago

Reminded me of this quote from Office Space.

I mean, employers are free to make whatever policies they want and employees are free to stay or leave. I think things have their own way of normalizing.

listenallyall3y ago

But these employees aren't meeting the bare minimum, which they apparently agreed to (as opposed to it being dictated to them).

voakbasda3y ago

Coerced into agreeing, perhaps. I cannot pretend for a moment that the playing field is level here.

1 more reply

andrei_says_3y ago

> employees are free to stay or leave

“Free” as in “free to live without health insurance, shelter, food, or water”

I am not sure I would call that “free”

chii3y ago

The assumption is they find another job (presumably, with similar salary/benefits), not that they quit working altogether.

bitsavers3y ago

cratermoon3y ago

Soon: CEOs at Disney and Starbucks struggle with understaffing, inability to attract workers

dekimirOP3y ago

cratermoon3y ago

2 more replies

squokko3y ago

> I thought COVID proved definitively that remote work is not just possible but equal to in-office work.

That's an extremely strong claim. How do you think COVID proved it "definitively"?

1 more reply

squokko3y ago

Doubtful that people are going to start mass abandoning their jobs in a layoff wave.

raincom3y ago

That depends on the unemployment rate of white collar workers.

ergocoder3y ago

In the current market with tons of layoffs? not soon.

matt-attack3y ago

dekimirOP3y ago

Doesn't that ensure that the most desirable employees leave and the least desirable cling on?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse