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0 pointscurun1r3y ago0 comments

The other major concern is running reliable power to the lights. That isn’t something that can happen above ground when crossing runways, so there’s going to be at least some digging up the runway and repaving. Repaving runways isn’t cheap. It has to be done in an expedited manner since airports need all runways available during peak hours, so there’s usually a six-ish hour overnight window for work to get done and the runway left usable for the next day. This isn’t like normal roadwork where temporary metal plates can cover over unfinished work, so work must be done and the asphalt set during that window. This can mean large work crews doing highly-choreographed work that they’ve prepared (and even practiced) long in advance.

The costs add up quickly.

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defrost3y ago

> so there’s going to be at least some digging up the runway and repaving.

The US doesn't have horizontal directional drilling rigs that go under a runway and pull cable?

dredmorbius3y ago

Oil and gas rigs typically don't have to worry about intersecting other infrastructure.

Even then, things occasionally go awry.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Peigneur#Drilling_disaste...>

For an airport, the precision required both to not hit extant underground infrastructure and to know precisely where your newly deployed infrastructure is (for the next guy/gal to worry about) is probably a salient concern.

I'm not sure that horizontal drilling offers that degree of precision and assurance as opposed to rip-and-dig methods.

defrost3y ago

If you're not sure then you might like to forget about oil and gas drilling and look to suburban optic fibre cable laying in which a cable can be accurately laid following a curving S path about the countours of a curving road avoiding other known pipes over distances of 500+ m.

dredmorbius3y ago

Thanks.

Any references / sources on that?

chha3y ago

Sure they do. But then you have a tunnel under the runway that will flood and potentially freeze. Crumbling concrete and nonflat surfaces is not something you want on a runway or taxiway.

defrost3y ago

Then you have an electrical cable in a conduit.

As opposed to the alternative described, where you close down the runway, dig out a full trench, lay a cable in a conduit, and attempt to compact every thing back to how it used to be?

You think that's a better alternative than just drill core'ing the conduit through?

Interesting.

julian_sark3y ago

Why can't they have two huge, red, flashing lights at either side of the crossway, thus avoiding the costs to dig up runway asphalt altogether? Better than what they seemingly have now ...

curun1rOP3y ago

There may be designs that cut out some/most of the cost, but I made the comment because I watched a YouTube documentary on an airport that was making modifications and they had to dig up a bunch of the runways. They made a big deal out of the work, including working with a special contractor who had a practice area where they tried all the work they'd have to do ahead of time and timed themselves to be sure they could get the runway back in operating condition by the time it was needed. The amount of work they went through for something fairly minor was pretty memorable. I took from it that airports have a lot of logistical concerns that are pretty unique and the "that seems simple" take that I'd previously had about the tarmac portion of an airport being just a bunch of asphalt with some signs and lights on it was totally ignorant of all the complexity.

akira25013y ago

> flashing lights at either side of the crossway

787 wingspan is 200ft (60m). Planes don't turn on a dime either, but the larger ones do have steering linked to the rear wheels, so their turn radius can be surprising.

The non invasive solution would be to require some kind of ground control computer link that can directly draw their controlled path for them on their displays and give them a nice loud master caution or warning if they're about to break their assignment.

Then we can start thinking about ground autopilot systems.

a9h74j3y ago

> and give them a nice loud master caution or warning if they're about to break their assignment.

Back in the days of the Exxon Valdez tanker incident, I wondered if the technology did not exist to positively track such major asset positions/directions, and dispatch an alarm from one or more authorities at a distance.

In terms of powering lights/signals, perhaps solar, batteries and a generator for each patch, and if there is no flashing of light visible (indicating power-loss or stuck-at failure), tower clearance must be given?

thaumasiotes3y ago

> 787 wingspan is 200ft

The lights don't need to be tall enough that the wings would be able to hit them.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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defrost3y ago

> so there’s going to be at least some digging up the runway and repaving.

The US doesn't have horizontal directional drilling rigs that go under a runway and pull cable?

dredmorbius3y ago

Oil and gas rigs typically don't have to worry about intersecting other infrastructure.

Even then, things occasionally go awry.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Peigneur#Drilling_disaste...>

I'm not sure that horizontal drilling offers that degree of precision and assurance as opposed to rip-and-dig methods.

defrost3y ago

dredmorbius3y ago

Thanks.

Any references / sources on that?

chha3y ago

Sure they do. But then you have a tunnel under the runway that will flood and potentially freeze. Crumbling concrete and nonflat surfaces is not something you want on a runway or taxiway.

defrost3y ago

Then you have an electrical cable in a conduit.

As opposed to the alternative described, where you close down the runway, dig out a full trench, lay a cable in a conduit, and attempt to compact every thing back to how it used to be?

You think that's a better alternative than just drill core'ing the conduit through?

Interesting.

julian_sark3y ago

Why can't they have two huge, red, flashing lights at either side of the crossway, thus avoiding the costs to dig up runway asphalt altogether? Better than what they seemingly have now ...

curun1rOP3y ago

akira25013y ago

> flashing lights at either side of the crossway

787 wingspan is 200ft (60m). Planes don't turn on a dime either, but the larger ones do have steering linked to the rear wheels, so their turn radius can be surprising.

Then we can start thinking about ground autopilot systems.

a9h74j3y ago

> and give them a nice loud master caution or warning if they're about to break their assignment.

thaumasiotes3y ago

> 787 wingspan is 200ft

The lights don't need to be tall enough that the wings would be able to hit them.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse