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0 pointsdjha-skin2y ago0 comments

I understand your point and understanding both sides of the country is very important, but so also is justice. I mean, what if he is guilty? If 48% of the population is ticked off by a guilty conviction that theoretically could be correct, that shouldn't stop us from convicting a criminal.

I'm not saying Trump is a criminal; I am not on the jury and do not have the facts. But I'm saying someone should be convicted if they're guilty even if it has political implications.

Whether or not people are angry at a result, that is their choice to make.

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zarzavat2y ago

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.

Should Joe Biden be prosecuted for negligently storing classified documents in his home? Every person in the US is guilty of some baseline level of criminality, and the more “interesting” your life, the more crimes you are likely to have committed.

If the US wants to have non-criminal presidents then it should reform its vast state and federal criminal codes so that such a person can actually exist. Until that happens, a norm against criminalizing ex-presidents (except for serious crimes) is a good norm to have.

[I’m not sure it has to be said here, but my political beliefs are completely disjoint with Trump’s]

drusepth2y ago

> Every person in the US is guilty of some baseline level of criminality, and the more “interesting” your life, the more crimes you are likely to have committed.

What's the point of having these laws if they're not enforced?

Yes, yes, and yes. Every little legal infraction should be prosecuted, no matter how small or who you are. If they don't matter or shouldn't matter, the law should be changed; keeping them on the books and selectively enforcing them when it's convenient isn't fair to anyone.

watwut2y ago

I dont think that is reasonable or fair comparison at all. Bidens treatment of documents was much different then Trumps ... and notably his layers returned documents by themselves upon realizing the issue.

> Until that happens, a norm against criminalizing ex-presidents (except for serious crimes) is a good norm to have.

Funny enough, the framers back then claimed that law applies to presidents too ... and that this is what makes United States special and different then monarchy.

another_story2y ago

Yes, if you commit a crime, petty or not, rich or poor, you should face a court. If you park in front of a fire hydrant, whether you're a mom picking up her kid or the president, you should get a ticket.

If there is no attempt at equality in the face of the law, then what's the point?

janalsncm2y ago

There’s a strong argument that regulations and punishment should be increased with power and authority. Those who are in power should behave exceptionally well.

When I worked for a bank we had to undergo quarterly insider trading training. When we were and weren’t allowed to trade stock, should we come into possession of material information. Of course that kind of stuff was way above my pay grade, but we were instructed to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

And yet Congress is allowed to day trade during classified hearings.

zarzavat2y ago

The US already has one of the largest imprisoned populations in the world, per capita. If the problem is unfairness and inequality (which I completely agree are serious problems), the solution is not to imprison even more people, but just richer people for white collar crimes to “balance things out”.

No, the solution is to imprison fewer people from disadvantaged classes. Imprisoning Trump does little to help all the people in prison for dubious reasons.

The logical conclusion of a policy of investigating and punishing all violations of all the laws currently on the books, is that almost everybody in America should be criminalized. That is not what a well functioning criminal justice system looks like.

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laidoffamazon2y ago

Bad example to use there because Trump will very possibly be indicted for doing the same, but much worse, in terms of his own classified information!

uptownfunk2y ago

Yes exactly, otherwise you end up with impotent policemen who are incapable of enforcing the law.

vl2y ago

But all high-level politicians are criminals. And perhaps we would be better off if they are all in jail.

The problem is that coming for ex-presidents in particular leads to them not leaving office and becoming dictators. And this is far worse outcome.

Notice how Trump didn’t come for Obama, although he vocally promised to do so. Then errors of his ways were explained to him and after election he stopped talking about it completely. Now social and political contract is broken in regard to him, while he did demonstrate necessary restraint himself.

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zarzavat2y ago

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.

[I’m not sure it has to be said here, but my political beliefs are completely disjoint with Trump’s]

drusepth2y ago

> Every person in the US is guilty of some baseline level of criminality, and the more “interesting” your life, the more crimes you are likely to have committed.

What's the point of having these laws if they're not enforced?

watwut2y ago

> Until that happens, a norm against criminalizing ex-presidents (except for serious crimes) is a good norm to have.

Funny enough, the framers back then claimed that law applies to presidents too ... and that this is what makes United States special and different then monarchy.

another_story2y ago

If there is no attempt at equality in the face of the law, then what's the point?

janalsncm2y ago

There’s a strong argument that regulations and punishment should be increased with power and authority. Those who are in power should behave exceptionally well.

And yet Congress is allowed to day trade during classified hearings.

zarzavat2y ago

No, the solution is to imprison fewer people from disadvantaged classes. Imprisoning Trump does little to help all the people in prison for dubious reasons.

2 more replies

laidoffamazon2y ago

Bad example to use there because Trump will very possibly be indicted for doing the same, but much worse, in terms of his own classified information!

uptownfunk2y ago

Yes exactly, otherwise you end up with impotent policemen who are incapable of enforcing the law.

vl2y ago

But all high-level politicians are criminals. And perhaps we would be better off if they are all in jail.

The problem is that coming for ex-presidents in particular leads to them not leaving office and becoming dictators. And this is far worse outcome.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse