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0 pointsyucky3y ago0 comments

  > 1. Yes, Putin saw that Ukrainians don't want to integrate with Russia and that Ukraine is escaping the Moscovian sphere of influence so he decided to invade Ukraine, taking over Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.

Ukrainians voted that government into power though. Doesn't violently overthrowing the government go against the whole idea of democracy? Not to mention being illegal. But you're cool with that because of the result?

  > 2. Yes, my personal opinion is that Crimea could at least have a special status as most people living there are Russians. But it should have been done in a completely different way

And then here where they actually did vote democratically, you don't support it because you wish it had been done a different way?

To sum up, you support violently overthrowing the democratically government in Ukraine, but don't support a democratic referendum in Crimea. Well, that's certainly a position to take.

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hdjjhhvvhga3y ago

> Ukrainians voted that government into power though. Doesn't violently overthrowing the government go against the whole idea of democracy? Not to mention being illegal. But you're cool with that because of the result?

I know Putin argues this way. He tried to use the "democracy" argument even though he is an autocrat and some people buy it. Euromaidan happened for just one reason: Putin pressured Yanukovych not to sign the Ukraine-EU Association Agreement and he gave in. Ukrainians didn't want to share the fate of Belorussians though. So Putin decided to invade as it was a slap in his face.

> And then here where they actually did vote democratically, you don't support it because you wish it had been done a different way?

No, any vote under the Moscovian rule is not democratic. Actually I don't care that much about Crimea as very few people died but I do care a lot about Donbas as people were suffering enormously. Of course the Russian media portrayed it as if everything was done by Ukrainians. My friends who lived there at the time said the thugs that ruled there didn't value human life at all, something that the whole world was to see a few years later. It was a tragedy that the West didn't react in 2014 and went for the appeasement strategy instead.

yuckyOP3y ago

  > I know Putin argues this way. He tried to use the "democracy" argument even though he is an autocrat

Putin is an autocrat, and that has nothing to do with the fact that the democratically elected government of Ukraine was violently overthrown in 2014. You keep trying to change the subject from that for some strange reason.

There was a democratic election in Ukraine and that duly-elected government was overthrown in a coup/revolution in 2014. Are you trying to dispute that, or just trying to pretend it had nothing to do with the annexation of Crimea the next day?

0dayz3y ago

You call others bad faith and then you yourself act in bad faith.

The Ukrainians were being shot at by Ukrainian and beaten up by OMOH, but of course ordinary people are the evil makers here.

And the revolution only became a revolution after the security forces (alongside OMOH) started to try and disrupt the then peaceful protest.

Maybe look in the mirror before you call others bad faith.

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