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0 pointsalex_sf2y ago0 comments

We had DHTs, we had blockchains, and double spending was solved at least 2 years before the bitcoin white paper.

Satoshi combined them together in a novel form, for sure, but it’s still largely useless.

0 comments

We had linked lists of hashes which themselves referenced hash-tables, and we had a solution to the Byzantine Generals problem, but the bitcoin whitepaper combined them, and the combination of those two properties (not even tied to the consensus mechanism) is the thing people are talking about when they use the word "blockchain" now

alex_sfOP2y ago

> Satoshi combined them together in a novel form, for sure, but it’s still largely useless.

alchemist1e92y ago

You seem to have a odd definition of “useless”.

1 more reply

eru2y ago

Any more background on how double spending was solved 2 years before bitcoin?

alex_sfOP2y ago

Sure. Whitepaper was released in 2008. Genesis block was in 2009.

In 2007 we had Combating Double-Spending Using Cooperative P2P Systems[0]. Prior to both the whitepaper and the genesis block, we had Distributed Double Spending Prevention[1].

These are all particular subsets of distributed consensus problems, which have been studied in the context of CS for at least 30+ years (Consensus in the Presence of Partial Synchrony[2]).

[0] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4268195

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/0802.0832

[2] http://groups.csail.mit.edu/tds/papers/Lynch/jacm88.pdf

eru2y ago

Thanks!

Do you have a pet theory on why bitcoin was the first such system to take off? Why not earlier?

2 more replies

olalonde2y ago

No.

alex_sfOP2y ago

Wow, that's a great point. I hadn't even thought to approach it like that.

olalonde2y ago

I mean the whole comment is wrong and I mean not just a little, like straight misinformation.

> We had DHTs, we had blockchains, and double spending was solved at least 2 years before the bitcoin white paper.

- Bitcoin doesn't use DHTs.

- The term blockchain was coined after the Bitcoin white paper was published, to describe the mechanism used in Bitcoin.

- Bitcoin was the first system to solve the double spending problem in a decentralized way.

> Satoshi combined them together in a novel form, for sure, but it’s still largely useless.

The network is actively used. Just yesterday, there were 345K on chain Bitcoin transactions totaling a value of around 4 billion USD.

2 more replies

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pcthrowaway2y ago

alex_sfOP2y ago

> Satoshi combined them together in a novel form, for sure, but it’s still largely useless.

alchemist1e92y ago

You seem to have a odd definition of “useless”.

1 more reply

eru2y ago

Any more background on how double spending was solved 2 years before bitcoin?

alex_sfOP2y ago

Sure. Whitepaper was released in 2008. Genesis block was in 2009.

In 2007 we had Combating Double-Spending Using Cooperative P2P Systems[0]. Prior to both the whitepaper and the genesis block, we had Distributed Double Spending Prevention[1].

These are all particular subsets of distributed consensus problems, which have been studied in the context of CS for at least 30+ years (Consensus in the Presence of Partial Synchrony[2]).

[0] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4268195

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/0802.0832

[2] http://groups.csail.mit.edu/tds/papers/Lynch/jacm88.pdf

eru2y ago

Thanks!

Do you have a pet theory on why bitcoin was the first such system to take off? Why not earlier?

2 more replies

olalonde2y ago

No.

alex_sfOP2y ago

Wow, that's a great point. I hadn't even thought to approach it like that.

olalonde2y ago

I mean the whole comment is wrong and I mean not just a little, like straight misinformation.

> We had DHTs, we had blockchains, and double spending was solved at least 2 years before the bitcoin white paper.

- Bitcoin doesn't use DHTs.

- The term blockchain was coined after the Bitcoin white paper was published, to describe the mechanism used in Bitcoin.

- Bitcoin was the first system to solve the double spending problem in a decentralized way.

> Satoshi combined them together in a novel form, for sure, but it’s still largely useless.

The network is actively used. Just yesterday, there were 345K on chain Bitcoin transactions totaling a value of around 4 billion USD.

2 more replies

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse