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0 pointsdeprecative3y ago0 comments

> Being a wage slave is a choice. If you don't like your life, change it.

It's incredibly unfortunate that instead of using a shred of empathy to see that your situation isn't the situation of nearly everyone else in the industry, or alive for that matter. "If you don't like your life, change it" screams "I have no idea what I am talking about" because you're failing to see that situations elsewhere are different.

Take a software job in the US. You're working a minimum of 45 hours per week for 40 hours pay. If you have to work overtime you do so for free. If you get sick you have a mandated PTO allowance of 0. You might get two weeks. Your salary will be somewhere in the ballpark of $70k. Is that good? Yes. Is it enough? No. Not even close. If you change employer or region is any of that going to change? No. It won't.

So, what's left? Easy: be born into wealth and retire on it. Just change your life, bro.

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wahnfrieden3y ago

Yes, all I suggested was that workers coordinate to demand conditions. Their reply was that individuals should talk to their bosses alone, or find a new boss. It's always mystified me why people will shoot down the idea of workers organizing, and meanwhile their managers, execs, investors, board and their industry connections routinely meet and coordinate over how to keep wages at a desired market position, in other words how to keep wages as suppressed as possible.

They're organized as hell over this, why should workers stay atomized? There's a reason employers don't want workers talking about wages with anyone except their boss.

jillesvangurp3y ago

Sounds pretty miserable. Come to Europe and enjoy life. Plenty of work here in Germany or elsewhere in Europe and pretty easy to get a visa if you have skills. Berlin is absolutely crawling with smart people from the US living a great life here.

1 more reply

lurking_swe3y ago

you’re a SWE working 45 hours a week? You can do better, even in the US. I suggest focusing on company culture when interviewing if you care about this kind of stuff.

I’ve worked at 3 companies in my career so far, and worked about 40 hours a week at each of them. i was not born into wealth…neither were (most) of my coworkers.

I won’t even ask about the $70k salary. I made that much at my first gig after college. Sounds like your employer is taking advantage of you.

deprecativeOP3y ago

You really can't do much better as a SWE in the US. Even when you're not sitting at your computer typing in all that super slick code you're still working. Company culture is the same within the US from place to place unless you want some ultra fundamentalist loon for a boss?

The base salary for Entry Level Developer ranges from $67,415 to $84,398 with the average base salary of $75,125.

> Sounds like your employer is taking advantage of you.

That's what employers do. That's all they do. That's all they're designed to do. But that's irrelevant because I am personally speaking to industry trends not a singular employer.

I guess cope harder? You've been working 40 hours. I assume you had a lunch period. That's 45. You work what we all do. Congrats.

lurking_swe3y ago

No, 40 hours includes lunch breaks. :) My bosses have all been non-jerks too, which is important. I’m probably lucky…but part of me just laughs during these types of conversations. we (software engineers) are more privileged than 90% of workers in america. Feels a bit like a harvard student complaining how hard their life is. It’s just a pointless discussion IMO.

Anyway ya’ll bitter as hell lol. Wish you all a pleasant day.

wahnfrieden3y ago

we're all in this together as workers, even if some of us are lucky to have higher pay than others. you're missing the point. yes tech workers have cushy lives.

wahnfrieden3y ago

Your logic is the same as the scab: others are foolish because I can personally enrich myself by doing something without care for how it ends up hurting myself in the long run

lurking_swe3y ago

look i get it, you’d prefer if people unionized so that the less fortunate benefit. a noble goal. But the parent is very confused if they think working conditions are amazing in europe. I agree PTO is fantastic for legal reasons. That aside…please realize that average pay in an expensive city like berlin is right around the $70k salary that they make fun of.

see for yourself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27916453

that’s for a SENIOR btw. Housing in Berlin is not cheap.

wahnfrieden3y ago

I'm not a fan of unions, you have a narrow sense of politics

wahnfrieden3y ago

>The national average salary for a Software Developer is $88,383 in United States.

Yes many of us here are capable of making multiples more than that and so have I, but we're not talking career advice here, we're talking about material conditions industry wide

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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wahnfrieden3y ago

They're organized as hell over this, why should workers stay atomized? There's a reason employers don't want workers talking about wages with anyone except their boss.

jillesvangurp3y ago

1 more reply

lurking_swe3y ago

you’re a SWE working 45 hours a week? You can do better, even in the US. I suggest focusing on company culture when interviewing if you care about this kind of stuff.

I’ve worked at 3 companies in my career so far, and worked about 40 hours a week at each of them. i was not born into wealth…neither were (most) of my coworkers.

I won’t even ask about the $70k salary. I made that much at my first gig after college. Sounds like your employer is taking advantage of you.

deprecativeOP3y ago

The base salary for Entry Level Developer ranges from $67,415 to $84,398 with the average base salary of $75,125.

> Sounds like your employer is taking advantage of you.

That's what employers do. That's all they do. That's all they're designed to do. But that's irrelevant because I am personally speaking to industry trends not a singular employer.

I guess cope harder? You've been working 40 hours. I assume you had a lunch period. That's 45. You work what we all do. Congrats.

lurking_swe3y ago

Anyway ya’ll bitter as hell lol. Wish you all a pleasant day.

wahnfrieden3y ago

we're all in this together as workers, even if some of us are lucky to have higher pay than others. you're missing the point. yes tech workers have cushy lives.

wahnfrieden3y ago

Your logic is the same as the scab: others are foolish because I can personally enrich myself by doing something without care for how it ends up hurting myself in the long run

lurking_swe3y ago

see for yourself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27916453

that’s for a SENIOR btw. Housing in Berlin is not cheap.

wahnfrieden3y ago

I'm not a fan of unions, you have a narrow sense of politics

wahnfrieden3y ago

>The national average salary for a Software Developer is $88,383 in United States.

Yes many of us here are capable of making multiples more than that and so have I, but we're not talking career advice here, we're talking about material conditions industry wide

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse